Bringing Aikido to a Fist Fight: an Anecdote

Discussion in 'Aikido' started by Jitsuka, Jun 30, 2017.

  1. Jitsuka

    Jitsuka New Member

    So tonight was my last class of Shorin Ryu Karate before I move a state away. In keeping with his son putting me through a shark tank in BJJ the night before, tonight my sensei had me spar my five classmates in succession for two minutes each. Now, my sensei knows I have an Aikido background, and, thankfully, is more than happy to let me bring Aikido, as well as any other styles I've dabbled in, into traditionally punch-kick sparring.

    The first three matches were relatively uneventful, with all three of my opponents trading blows without anything too notable (save for one guy backing me into the onlookers with a particularly furious assault). My fourth match, however, was against my ex, and that's where things got interesting. My ex started Karate a few months after me when I introduced her to it, and has been at my rank or only slightly behind ever since. She hasn't dabbled in as many arts as I have, but claims her father taught her some Systema.

    We began the match and, given our history, I was a little more aggressive with her than I would be with other opponents. I got in a few good kicks and punches, with her getting in a punch or two. Then I had an idea: I moved in and hit her with a right cross before doing a body change to face in the same direction she was, followed by a kokyu nage. I didn't expect the move to work when I tried it, but work it did! I came up under her chin, bending her backwards and causing her to tumble to the floor.

    At this point she got up, and, understandably aggravated, came at me with renewed fury. More punches and kicks were exchanged before I moved in to grappling range again. At this point she reached some combination of rage and panic, and I took several close range kicks before repeating the procedure and sending her once again tumbling to the floor with a kokyu. After the second one, she got up, visibly furious, and closed again... only to be stopped by the timer.

    I wanted to share this because people often criticize Aikido as being hindered by unrealistic and insular training. Well, tonight I managed to apply it to good effect against a determined and resisting opponent. I am now eager to see what I can do at whatever dojo I settle on in my new home.

  2. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    • Language, please. We do try to keep our comments "family friendly."
    You guys should have just shook hands and sparred someone else.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 30, 2017
  3. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member

    Because most of aikido working is anecdotal evidence. I've seen a few videos of people applying wrist locks in a fight but it's rare.

    Consider, would you rather something worked consistently every time, or would you rather rely on anecdotal information about something working?

    Also consider how long you've been training karate, and this is the first time you've successfully used aikido. What about all the times it didn't work?
    philosoraptor likes this.
  4. Jitsuka

    Jitsuka New Member

    Wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole anymore!

    Now, as for Aikido's effectiveness, first, there are no peer reviewed studies of martial art combat effectiveness, not to my knowledge at least. It's all anecdotal.

    Second, I've been training for a year-and-half in karate, and we've sparred once every couple of weeks. That being said, I tended to constantly backpedal for a long time, which doesn't work very well trying to apply Aikido in most cases. I want to work on changing my approach so better incorporate it.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 30, 2017
  5. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member

    At the end of the day it is impossible to compare martial arts because it does come down to the individual. However, it is possible to compare training methodologies with more successful fighters/anecdotal evidence.

    What you find is that you fight how you train. If you fight each other in the gym, you get better at fighting. Most aikido dojos never spar, never throw punches, and never actually try to resist techniques applied to them.
  6. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    What's her Snapchat?
    Dead_pool likes this.
  7. aikiMac

    aikiMac boxing is fun Moderator Supporter

    Yep, aikido is built on moving forward. To a large degree it is Japanese swordfighting without a sword, and kendo guys only move forward. Perhaps in your karate sparring you can work on moving to the side (on an angle) rather than retreating backwards. That will set you up for better offense generally, and aikido moves particularly.
  8. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    Question for mods: previously I don't think the verb I used was censored, can you help me out and let me know about the new standards? I tried to conform to rules, apologies.
    Dead_pool likes this.
  9. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth

    Classy, really classy.

    Is there any reason you mentioned your previous relationship in the thread?
    philosoraptor likes this.
  10. aikiMac

    aikiMac boxing is fun Moderator Supporter

    It wasn't a precise word that made people step back and pause, but rather the imagery that your sentence conveyed and the bluntness of the statement.
    bassai and philosoraptor like this.
  11. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    I'll be more uhhh delicate in the future.

  12. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    With all due respect, all I can think of after reading this is that the both of you had no business sparring each other if you couldn't do so without bringing your personal issues into it. You being more aggressive, her having rage and fury. So, you were using the school training as an excuse to physically try to punish each other for whatever issues you had? Or you have such bad history that you just couldn't control your emotions? Either way, it has no place while practicing. In a sparring match, you are sparring partners only. Or should be IMO. You probably both risked injury. When sparring, it is still one's duty to be a respectful and safe partner.

    I don't think you should spar each other again unless you can treat each other as you would any other student in that situation.

    I don't mean this as a lecture, but to get you to really think about it for the future. I would hope you would want to be a good responsible and safe training partner to whomever you train with.
  13. Madao13

    Madao13 Valued Member

    It's weird though. The most natural act in the world, being censored and considered inappropriate.
    A lot more censored than violence too!
  14. Cen Garsden

    Cen Garsden Flamin' Wobbygong

    Here's an anecdote for you. The first time I used Aikido in a bar fight it worked. A guy on hard drugs smashed up a bar I worked at, including the singer of the band, several punters and two windows. I used dai-ippo ura waza (ikkyo/ikkajo) to pin him into the broken glass he'd smashed.
  15. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth

    Rataca100 and Van Zandt like this.
  16. Cen Garsden

    Cen Garsden Flamin' Wobbygong


    I had to think a little in order to write a correct response to what I initially considered a "micky take" by someone who doesn't even post under his own name.

    That was a great article. To continue both our points, I do indeed have survivorship bias. I recall a time when the Gracie's didn't have time limits to defeat others. More personally, I recall growing up on the streets of Lismore (NSW, AU) and standing down 7-10 of my kin who wanted to threaten my friend's family (and guests) with axes. TO SURVIVE is the whole point of the martial arts, and snide self serving references is exactly what I care not for. You may be a mercenary indeed (like Wayde) whoring your petty "like" points with some kind of circle jerk inner sanctum of these forums, but I ask you to please be eloquent and at least a little respectful to those who respect YOUR opinion, not an article written by an(assumed)other.

    Use plain speak.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2017
    cloudz likes this.
  17. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth

    I belive you may of missed my point,
    survivorship bias applies when looking at the data, by only looking at the cases which have survived and ignoring the failures, which is why annecdotes are generally self selective for survivorship bias, no amount of further anecdotes and passive aggressiveness will change this.

    On a anecdotal level, aikidoka dont generally have clinch fighting skills, so if you do have clinch skills, you can wreck shop.

    Which is why the old school approach of having judoka also training aikido worked well.
  18. Hannibal

    Hannibal Angriest MAP resident.... Supporter

    ToS forbids swearing mate - might wanna watch that

    That's in and of itself not a massive issue as long as it isn't being upheld as an unassailable truth - Penn Jillette once defended himself in a fight with a strawberry milkshake, but I don't think it is a viable or sustainable combat option on a global scale.

    Not technically true - they always had limits, they just didn't reach them very often (UFC 5 is an example of when they did). Significantly when Royce took a fight with no time limit (albeit rounds) he lost. Lets also remember that Helio lost prior to that on a few occasions and GJJ was not "undefeated" as it claimed anyway

    Whilst the Gracies represented a paradigm shift in public perception, they do not represent all efficiacy and indeed to this day many have no idea who they are.

    Must have been a very scary situation. That said had the actually done anything you would have died or been seriously injured and no amount of martial arts would have helped, so it doesn't really speak to your original point

    Your feelings on the matter do not alter the reality of it

    Yet you understood exactly what he was saying...I will leave the passive aggressive comments alone a they aren't really worth entering into.

    He did

    It helps to think of these posts as a conversation - sometimes it will be a pithy retort, sometimes a diatribe and sometimes referencing someone else (as Deadpool did above). If you get your panties twisted everytime someone disagrees with a point you make then your stay here will be a bumpy ride. Relax a little and try and look at what is being said rather than simply taking umbrage.
  19. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member

    Cool. What am I supposed to do with this anecdotal evidence?
  20. Cen Garsden

    Cen Garsden Flamin' Wobbygong

    Nice blow for blow analysis, proper diction etc.

    Sorry, I was in a foul mood last night, and the internet is a bad place to vent.

    @Sixteen Candles, maybe you can just blow it off as fiction.

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