Atheism and Taoism

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by AndrewTheAndroid, Dec 29, 2013.

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  1. AndrewTheAndroid

    AndrewTheAndroid A hero for fun.

    I was wondering if Taoism can practiced without the religious trappings? What can I take away from Taoism as an Atheist? What books would you recommend?
     
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Yes it can :)

    To be honest just read the Tao Te Ching, but pick a translation carefully because some are a bit fluffier than others. I have several
    - the least prosaic is DC Lau's ( the Penguin Classic translation)
     
  3. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    Personally I like The Dao Of Star Wars, which uses Jedi teachings and the force as a starting point for learning Daoism.

    I am also a fan of the Dude De Ching. Modern Daoism easily understood.

    The Dude Abides.
     
  4. frownland

    frownland 【ツ】

    You might find Chuang Tzu (aka Zhuangzi etc) more accessible and less austere than Tao Te Ching. It's a collection of strange and amusing fables, rather than poetic aphorisms.
     
  5. Timmy Boy

    Timmy Boy Man on a Mission

    Even if Taoism per se could not be practised without the religious trappings for whatever reason, you could still draw influence from the parts that made sense to you. I am not a Christian, but I recognise some good concepts within Christianity. Feel free :)
     
  6. runcai

    runcai Valued Member

    Taoism basically is a practice of trying to live forever, and that has nothing to do with religion. Being an atheist, I think you still want to live longer and stronger like most people. I think the Taoist pick up Martial Arts in the 12th Century and that was a long time from the earliest writing of Tao or Dao.
     
  7. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    Uhh, no. The living forever and alchemy parts were added later. To put it simply Daoism is about living in harmony with yourself and the universe. It includes concepts like the illusion of control, living in the moment, seeing reality as it is and not what how we think it should be and not blocking your own light.
     
  8. Lad_Gorg

    Lad_Gorg Valued Member

    I'm curious what people think of Takuan Soho's interpretation of Tao Te Ching later translated by Thomas Clearly (see link)? I've got Clearly's translation of the Book of Five Rings, and it really well done, so I'm not worried about the writing style. Plus I've recently become interested in Takuan Soho, been reading the Unfettered Mind in my free time, and it's some really interesting stuff.
    Just interested if people would recommend this version over other translations? Or whether this book is worthwhile or not.

    [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Tao-Te-Ching-Teachings-Classic/dp/1590308964"]Tao Te Ching: Zen Teachings on the Taoist Classic: Lao-Tzu, Takuan Soho, Thomas Cleary: 9781590308967: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]
     
  9. runcai

    runcai Valued Member

    If you can maintain your body in harmony you will live forever, and you will be god if you can harmonize the universe.
     
  10. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    You live through your works not your body - no one - and I mena NO ONE - can live forever physically, and no one ever has
     
  11. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    Sorry to disappoint you but the answer to that is also no.

    Hannibal I read somewhere that something like 30% of the people who ever lived are still alive. Statistics baby.

    Math has spoken.
     
  12. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Still leaves 70% dead as a Norwegian Blue though!
     
  13. Considered

    Considered New Member

    What are the religious trappings of Taosim?
     
  14. Considered

    Considered New Member

    ....oh I see - like, as in, not God related?

    Taoism suggests living in accordance with life.

    So, you could look for natural patterns of life, where there is non-resistance.

    the book Dao De Ching - which is almost impossible to understand - roughly translates to "way of virtue" - suggesting that actions carried out in accordance with life are virtuous.

    Looking for the good in people, and their actions - would be inline with Taoism, I should think.

    I don't think Taoism really has anything to do with God. Sometimes people translate "the Tao" as meaning something mystical, like God....but what they really mean is the universe that exists infront of you....

    You don't need to believe in God to believe in what you can see :)

    If there's anything to be learnt, for the most-part it's likely to be inter-personal relationships - outside of that, not polluting the environment.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2013
  15. Considered

    Considered New Member

    I would suggest books that teach compassion.

    Personally, I have never found a good book on Taoism...which is a shame, really....e.g:

    - Dao De Ching - you might as well read Fox in Socks by Dr. Suess, daily *
    - I-Ching - that's just divination - plus some poetic talk - even Tarot would be more effective and easier to learn!
    - Zhuangzi I had some hope, but it sounds like more esoteric** fairy tales

    It seems Taoism is like Zen, in that respect...

    ...Bodhidharma [a founder of Zen] sat alone for 20 years to realise all this esoteric** stuff was nonsense....1,500 years later it's all back!

    :)

    * Unless you've got a few hours a day, in the wilderness, to contemplate how the properties and movement of a Bamboo plant reflect the nature of yourself (as you walk from province to province in ancient China). Or fancy making a break from Western life and becoming a hermit to do so.

    ** Sorry, I realised that not everyone understands the word esoteric, it means "intended for, or likely to be understood by, only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest."
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2013
  16. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    Considered, a really, really good book on Daoism is The Dao of Star Wars, really.

    It covers the Dao De Ching and uses the Jedi teachings and the Force as a way to get the esoteric stuff across. By using the movies as a framework he gives the modern reader a good reference point for what Daoism is trying to teach.

    I highly recommend it.
     
  17. Considered

    Considered New Member

    Even if I'm not within travelling distance of Dagobah?

    What will I do if I need a master to illuminate the path?
     
  18. Considered

    Considered New Member

    Thanks Mike - I get Dao De Ching, really :)

    But it did take time, and experience...and I don't agree with it all...I also think it wastes a hell of a lot of time in conjecture about the nature of the universe...and potificating about right conduct from over a thousand years ago....times have changed...don't you think?

    Being in accordance with the Tao would also mean moving along with it, no?
     
  19. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    For me I do a mix of Daoism and Buddhism. I see them as very similar. I have a Zen breathing meditation practice which lays a good foundation.

    What I get out of Daoism is giving up the illusion of control, patience, seeing reality as it is and not as I wish it was, and a level of detachment, in a good way, where I don't get caught up in all the drama going on around me. I think there is a verse where they describe it as sitting in the eye of the storm. it doesn't mean there is no storm, it just means that it is not MY storm.
     
  20. Considered

    Considered New Member

    The older I get - and you're older than I! ;) - the more I realize that to be a real Daoist master would be quite a feat - even with self-reflection, there's probably neigh-on 59 years' practice - lol :)

    What I struggle to understand now - and this is probably why the 120 year old's teaching is sooooo esoteric - is that people tend to want to be treated in a way that makes them suffer.....i.e. it is not Ok for me to, simply, come in and tell you all about myself.....but it is Ok for me to ask you all about yourself, and vice-versa....when in reality both are equal, and people are sometimes feeling uncomfortable about asking questions.....(where's the emoticon with the squiggly mouth?!)

    It's complicated stuff :)

    I guess that's like your eye in the storm analogy?
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2013
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