Atemi Strikes?

Discussion in 'Aikido' started by Vajrayana, Mar 30, 2012.

  1. Vajrayana

    Vajrayana Valued Member

    I've been doing some reading in this sub-forum in preparation for beginning my aikido classes. At first I read that aikido had no strikes at all, but then I read that there were some, called "atemi strikes". Which is it? And what are "atemi strikes"?
     
  2. Seventh

    Seventh Super Sexy Sushi Time

    The main purpose of Atemi Strikes in Aikido, to my limited knowledge, is to aid in unbalancing an opponent. A quick strike to the face to momentarily distract him and falter, so attempts to throw are easier.

    Wikipedia:

    Also, in some cases, they are designated strikes to a weak/sensitive parts of the body with the purpose of incapacitating them.
     
  3. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDp2FGVwnzs"]Atemi.mov - YouTube[/ame]
     
  4. dentoiwamaryu

    dentoiwamaryu Valued Member

    Unfortunately a lot of classes called "Aikido" or not of a MARTIAL nature as they have been so heavily diluted to work on too much co-operation instead of effective attacks and counters.
     
  5. Vajrayana

    Vajrayana Valued Member

    As a matter of fact... I'll start a whole new thread for that.

    Thanks you guys. Real helpful. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2012
  6. slapjitsu

    slapjitsu Banned Banned

    there is actually styles of jujitsu know as atemi jitsu knocking about that specialise in nerve strikes and pressure point work.
     
  7. finite monkey

    finite monkey Thought Criminal

    In the kung fu san soo I studied there were no 'blocks'

    The blocks were considered strikes to the attackers limb and called windmills

    I think it is more a matter of mind set

    San soo is a very aggresive style. Its' phut gar dictates that one should never be defensive always attacking. Blocks are just not attacky enough.

    Aikido is a very defensive style with a defensive psychology, so the notion of striking will be modified to suit its' ethos
     
  8. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    depends upon the receiver

    but yeah,,,, it has to do with a whole other set of methods
     
  9. righty

    righty Valued Member

    Saying 'atemi strikes' is like saying 'bo staff'. In simple terms 'atemi' translates to 'strikes'.

    A punch to your ribs is an example of atemi.
     
  10. Aikido is 70% strikes and 30% the rest --- forgot who said that. :)
    Any throw or joint lock will always work better if you first hit and stun your opponent. (if it doesn't work, hit again, harder!) ;)


    Osu!
     
  11. Vajrayana

    Vajrayana Valued Member

    How much force needs to be behind these kinds of strikes?
     
  12. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    judo atemi waza should be "just enough" to hurt.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKuMITjSeog"]Kodokan Judo - Ismeretterjesztő Film - YouTube[/ame]
     
  13. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

  14. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    Yep, saying atemi strikes is like saying "strike strikes", since atemi (当身) actually does refer to striking.

    I'd extrapolate on atemi as a method of kuzushi for throws and jointlocks too.
     
  15. afhuss

    afhuss Valued Member

    According to Gozo Shioda in his book "Shugyo" Ueshiba used to say aikido is 70% atemi and 30% throwing.

    Here is an interesting take on atemi by Shioda Sensei...paraphrased because I'm not at home and don't have access to that book:

    He said something of the nature that grab techniques are useless in a practical point of view as they do not represent realistic attacks. That grabbing techniques are a method used to start off learning a technique because the connection with uke is already there. In Yoshinkan aikido, often techniques are first taught with grabs, then later progress to strikes...similarly, techniques are also taught static at the beginning.

    So I believe what Shioda Sensei was implying was that we use these forms in class to learn and understand how a technique is supposed to feel, then once correct form is achieved, worked to apply that in a dynamic situation. Now, how do we get to all these wonderful wrists and elbows and heads we like to manipulate? Well one way, at least where I train, is to attack your uke with a strike with the intent of starting the control aspect of the technique with that strike...striking to entice a block or reaction which nage can take advantage of. For example, in a technique we call Shomenuchi Ikkajo dai Ichi, nage will initiate with a shuffling front strike to uke's head. When uke blocks this technique, nage executes ikkyo with uke's blocking hand.

    So it is my understanding that atemi is used to initiate control of uke (opponent) which is followed up by a submission, lock, or throw. I know that is counter to how a lot of people teach aikido, but that's our perspective on atemi.

    I actually intend to do that quite a bit in my next test, but I need to work with some select uke that I trust to prevent injury. I know that threatens to loose genuineness and become almost quasi-coreographed, but there is always safety to contend with. In class I sometimes start off a technique with different strikes to see what I can get out of it....its fun but a little tricky because, especially aikido, people block unpredictably...or not at all, lol. But once you tell them, "no, I'm trying to work on something, please block like you would if someone was about to tag you" it kind of ruins that genuine nature again. Anyway, the more I do it, the more consistently I get a clean technique out of uke's defensive movement.
     
  16. Sketco

    Sketco Banned Banned

    This is actually how Ueshiba executed the majority of his techniques.

    My sensei had a pretty easy wayof getting people to block atemi. Hit hard. They'll start blocking mighty quickly. I was slow on blocking once.... I was never slow on it again.
     
  17. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    I heard the saying "Aikido is 90% atemi".

    Atemi (striking) is about striking principles, not specifically any one technique. It could be a punch or a slap or a kick, but it could be with any part of the body. I could use my hip to check someone, it would be using atemi with my hip, for example. Whole body is a weapon.

    Atemi principles are about penetration of force in a short amount of time. A principle is stun or unbalance on contact and this is almost always done in Aikido by use of atemi through a kuzushi (unbalancing point). So any instantaneous penetration of force could be considered using striking principles. Opposed to grappling principles such as application of constant pressure on contact. All principles can be used in combat, there is no separation of striking and grappling principles in real world. However, different training methods and systems tend to emphasize some principles more than others. People tend to fight as they train, so to speak.

    Anyway, back to 90% of Aikido is atemi. So whether or not this can be taken literally as 90% of Aikido is striking principles, the use of the term 90% is a metaphor. The metaphor is that of an iceberg. 10% of an iceberg is visible above the waterline. The other 90% is below the water line and thus is hidden from sight. 90% represents not only a number of 9 out of 10, but in the sense of an iceberg, it represents those aspects of a martial art that are supplemental or hidden. Some would call this the secret to a martial art.

    90% is atemi, then as a metaphor, this could be taken as most of the atemi is hidden from sight. This could allude to atemi being a secret in Aikido, something that is not obvious to a beginner or outside observer, but something that a long time Aikidoka with real world application experience would be able to comprehend as an integral part of Aikido.

    A little tid bit here... how important is understanding "the sword" in Aikido? What percentage of sword work is using atemi principles?
     
  18. sakumeikan

    sakumeikan Valued Member

    Aikido

    Dear Sir,
    Once again the myth that Aikdo is very defensive is being aired on this forum.This is a fallacy.Aikido in fact is pro active.Any aikidoka of any real substance can if required use atemi.The fact that a person can decide not to apply atemi does not mean that the person is incapable of making an attack. I suggest you watch the video postedon this Forum named Wake Up Call with Chiba Sensei. I think you will agree that there is nothiing defensive shown in this vid.
     
  19. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    :hat:

    Another way to think of it;

    If, that is what Aikido is (avoiding attacks) then that practitioner must be well-versed in making attacks in order to analyse and defend against such attacks
     
  20. finite monkey

    finite monkey Thought Criminal

    Sorry Aikido for disrespectin' you'll
     

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