Hey guys. I know there are a few historical western art guys here and maybe you can help me with a question. I was wondering what the weakness's were in articulated plate armor? I ask because i was thinking about how a fight with one would go down. I know that most who owned it were rich. From what i have read they also wore some chain mail under it to add protection. Which would be in addition to the clothing worn underneath that, the gamberson i think it is called. Now i dont know how many rich guys wore that many layers but it got me thinking. On the battle field how would you kill that guy? I dont think a sword or spear will penetrate the plate and chain on his chest. I also dont know how well it would do if you slipped the knife between the articulations due to the chain. So in a major battle and for what ever purpose this knight is dismounted and is approached by 1-2 or more guys, how are the lesser armored and armed guys going to deal with this guy? He is a walking tank. So what was the typical way to deal with those guys? Im aware that powerful long bows and crossbows will do the job but im more interested the rest of the ground force.
Half swording was used to get a more powerful thrust that could penetrate armour. I think maces, hammers and maybe axes as well were used to smash armour. I'll stick a video up in a min.
Bit of info here. [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCfAuuG92g"]Warhammer vs Mace!!! - YouTube[/ame] [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQBds6ZYERE"]Percussion weapons (mace, warhammer etc) vs swords - Part 2 - YouTube[/ame]
How would the thrust of a sword deal with the chain underneath the plate? I know that chain is not as piercing resistant but it will be hard to get through?
Halfswording makes the sword stiffer, therefore better able to penetrate mail and padding. However the issue that's being missed here is that swords and maces were sidearms. The main weapon of knightly combat in the age of full plate was the poleaxe which you can nicely use to hook your opponent's legs out from under them and had a hook or hammer for trying to rip plates off and a big thick spike for driving through gaps. Infantry had the bill (England/France) or various hooked halberds (Germany/Italy) for the same function with increased range.
i found this: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl-ec6Ub7FM"]Testing Swords Against Riveted Mail Armor - YouTube[/ame] [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAm8FTScXWA[/ame]
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZWkDhh9Zsg"]7 AEMMA Armoured Poleaxe demo - YouTube[/ame] [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcDCMhyOLAc"]The Pole Axe - Medieval Weapons - YouTube[/ame]
If you're using half-sword techniques against a man in plate armour, the targets are the face (one would often open the visor for visibility and breathing), the armpit, the groin, the back of the knee, down the cuff of the gauntlet, the palms of the hands and the soles of the feet. If you're using the mortschlag (reversing the sword to use as a hammer), common targets are the lead hand, the knee and the head. -Mark
I thought that the targets you mentioned would all have armoring on them? So am i mistaken that the gloves and such were not fully armored but only one side?
Correct. The palms of gauntlets are leather, as are the soles of the sabatons. The armpits and the backs of the knees are maille to allow movement, likewise with any other articulations. The cuff of the gauntlet (say an hourglass type) often has enough room for you to get a sword point down there and stick it into the metacarpals. This was sometimes used to force an opponent to go where you wanted him to. A common technique when halfswording is to jam your point into the maille covering opponent's armpit. You then brace the crossguard against your breastplate and press forward with your body. Ideally, the part of the point that penetrates the maille will compress the flesh behind it, making the wound deeper than the actual length of weapon entering the body. Look how fine the point of a XVa longsword could be: http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/nextgen/sword-medieval-agincourt-xv.htm One could certainly fit that into a small gap and cause serious damage. In a duelling situation, armoured combat usually came down to ground work with daggers, much like the "position before submission" in bjj. Get to a side control, crucifix, mount or the like and deploy the dagger. Manuals sometimes recommend cutting a piece of the opponent's gambeson off and stuffing it in his visor, or taking a handful of mud and putting it in there while he's pinned. This could (I think) make the opponent cough convulsively, giving you time to get to work. Here's a nice video showing interpretations from some manuals on half-swording: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4k-vjdeZO4"]SwArta Harnischfechten - YouTube[/ame] -Mark
