ARMA goes into meltdown

Well it seems like the inevitable has finally happened. ARMA has imploded under the leadership of John Clements. It seems he passed an edict that all ARMA members intellectual property is his and that ARMA members could not associate with non-ARMA members. Ha ha ha ha ha, seems John has be drinking deeply from the well of madness. Anyway seems that this has casued a mass exodus from ARMA.

Details can be found below.

http://blog.paulushectormair.com/2009/04/arma-senior-members-in-mass-exodus.html

In my opinion this isn't about control but about money. It's something I seen so many times when people take something they love and turn it into a living. It turns them in to everything they used to despise. It's why I would never run a professional fencing salle.

The Bear.

 

Content contains profanity.

ooops .... didnt even notice!

 

At one point said blog refferenced my rec.martial-arts Newbie's Guide to Martial Arts. Specifically, the "cults" section. I was sorry to see it taken out.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

Ha ha ha ha. It's so funny the difference. I tell all the people I train to go out and find the best and learn everything they can. He says, I am the ONE, you will listen to me and me alone! Oh and please send cash, used bills to JC heaven on earth fund.

The Bear.

 

so,

I've read Bear's post and thought "hmmm, things must be all abuzz on the ARMA website, and it's been a while since my last visit... why not go and have a look"

Not a peep. Virtual tumbleweeds rolling through the forum. You would think that the loss of so many people just wasn't happening. When I teach research methods, one of the things you get people to look for is what isn't there, as opposed to the obvious things. This strikes me as being a classic case of a very eloquent silence...

paul

 

Supposedly dissenting voices are banned and posts, whole THREADS removed.

What I'll say, for myself, is that the few times I've interacted with Mr. Clements via email, he has been polite, if brief, to me.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

One thing you have to say about old JC is atleast he fights. There are FAR too many book boys in WMA for my taste. It's a shame he is an egomanic because if he was just an outspoken psychopath I would have really liked him.

The Bear.

 

... sounds like he would have been a perfect fit for the gcod!

 

Aye we do attract the personality disorders that's for sure.

The Bear.

 

I was up reading that blog the other day late into the night. I found out about it on bullshido. Freaked me right out. We live in interesting WMA times, it seems. I think the big upside of this is that there are now former ARMAteers who are free to interact with the wider WMA community, since ARMA tends to be insular.

There are a few too many people in HES who talk the talk and don't walk the walk, but you see that in martial arts in general.

Best regards,

-Mark

 

Yes, I'm looking forward to that. I expected them to end up forming their own splinter group but I was hoping that, instead, they'd migrate to or negotiate a sub-group under one of the other existing umbrella organizations.

I honestly believe that would have been far more beneficial. WMA doesn't need yet another organization certifying the same thing. Though an exaggeration, I fear that Longsword is becoming the WMA version of Tae Kwon Do.

Bah. I can't tell you how many "Masters" I've seen in Asian Martial Arts alone.

I recall having a conversation with three notable Stage Combat experts in which the topic of conversation was whether or not listing someone as "Sword Master" in the credits of a film cheapened or otherwise insulted the evolution of and past/present actual Masters. The context for it was the fact that said credits also ran with "Horse Master," "Grip Master," "Prop Master," etc. Essentially the top dog on set for that area of production was traditionally listed as "Master" and it was simply a (potentially) unfortunate convergence of words to a phrase that many people thought they already knew what it meant. While my late friend Mark opined that, in that context, he couldn't understand why anyone would be upset, I had a different take on it. My expressed feeling was, "who cares? I've seen countless 'Masters' of whatever weapon you care to define and many of them were paper tigers so why would I even CARE that a choreographer on a movie was listed as 'Master' providing I 1) even noticed the listing in the credits and 2) didn't notice all the other 'Masters' equally listed."

I dunno. I kinda feel a little cavalier about it. I might feel different tomorrow and gripe endlessly about how hords of all-talk WMA swordsmen are diminishing the stature of WMA in the eyes of Joe Sixpack.

But today I'm kinda like, "yeah, whatever. Cross swords and then I'll respect you." I mean, really, if I haven't seen you work or if you haven't been vetted by someone who I already trust, well, maybe you're all talk, but who cares?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

I don't think this means the end of ARMA - JC will just regroup and go forward.

Didn't those guys split off a few years back and publish the internal mailing list (armatruth or hacatruth - something like that)?

ARMA problem is also it's avantage - size. If it was small then no-one would really get so hot under the collar.

Cheers,

Mark

 

Yes, the same thing has happened in Eastern MA systems like Wing Chun and JKD over the years, many of the largest organizations have fractured but they simply replace the instructors who've left or create fast-track instructor courses.

Louie

 

the armatruth website I think was just 2 blokes who got the JC shaft and decided to publish the machinations of the dysfunctional higher workings of arma.

Problem now for grand poobah clements is that the domination and internal mystic he had is shattered. no longer will it be arma against the world (a favourite tool of totalitarian states everywhere). arma v ex-arma might be the next big growth in hema flame wars (replacing Bear against everyone else) and I for one have laid in a mahooosive supply of beer and popcorn to better enjoy the mayhem.

 

The ex-pats seem to want to avoid any antagonistics with ARMA. Most of them resigned quietly and without fanfare. It seems that a critical mass made things noticeable, plus the blog that broke the news to the wider community. Mind you, I found out at bullshido. News travels fast. I believe the public-ness of it all came over IP disputes.

At any rate, I wish both HECF and ARMA well. I've always held ARMA's scholars in high regard. Given the quality of the expats, I expect HECF to be a quality organization, provided they have the administrative expertise to match their fighting and research skills.

Best regards,

-Mark

 

mark
you are forgetting clements' personality. he will see this as a mass betrayal and will start preaching (and I use that word for good reason) against the ingrates and traitors. The ex-pats may want to go their own way but I dont see it going down like that.

I hate messianic leaders/followers and clements/arma was always a classic case AND I've been on the end of too many bullying hectoring flamings from haca/arma members at various forums for me to wish them well. I hope they tear each other apart.

 

Hi RH,

That what I was meaning about size being a pro and con. Most groups tend to be dictatorships with higher "generals" and it's the same here. The advantage of being a dictatorship is that the group has definite leadership (right or wrong) and the members often are very loyal. The "problem" here is that ARMA is a very big group so get a lot of attention and makes big waves.

Our group is well named in one respect - as we don't really care, we just do what we do and try to do it well - but if we were several hundred strong then we would get a lot of attention and would make a lot more waves (good and bad).

Love them or hate them, they're there and will probably still be there in years to come.

Cheers,

Mark

 

It's funny in that I've seen a fair amount of shenanigans of that sort from ARMA members too. Seems most of the time it's done by people looking to make a name for themselves and climb the internal ladder or by simply "rank and file." I've had real good interaction with ARMA folks "up the ladder" a bit.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

The Exiles have been a good friend to the WMA community for a long time now. They were among the first several to actively host manuals for download on the web. Extra props to The Exiles for that service and others along the way.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

Thanks Kirk, that's really appreciated - I'll pass it along.