Another "what would you have done" thread

I think the couple issue is key. If they are a couple, you don't want to get involved unless it goes violent. But if this was a case of a woman being accosted by a stranger, then I like to think I'd be willing to give him someone else to pick a fight with.

 

A desire to feel like more of a man

You probably did the right thing hanging back there friend, so I wouldn't worry too much about it, but there's still that nagging feeling that you didn't feel manly, right? That if you were a real man would've gone to her rescue, or at least have had the guts to step in if it really kicked off...because you know you're a good person and just at that time you didn't feel strong.

M8 I well know the feeling, a few years ago I stepped in to help a friend in need and let's just say that things didn't go well, and I exited the affray to go call the cops. Afterwards I felt like a coward; that if I was any sort of man I would've stayed and fought the losing battle right to the end.

Another time on a drunken night out I went for someone who had slapped me on the dish for next to no reason, again only to fail and feel less than a man.

I guess what I'm trying to say through my example is, do not feel bad, it's all to the good and can be used as motivation for use on your journey - and our journey together.

I mean, I know - even though time and again I've recognised the lost cause I'm fighting, and I've appeared to give up - even though I've lost a few battles - I've not lost the war because bad experiences are cause to train harder, to build up my skills and answer that call to be in a place where the next logical step is to "go save that lady" or "go save my friend" - because that's the kind of person I'm wanting to be - I want to have total faith in myself, not worrying about the "other" because I have tested myself to the extreme and I know I can do it - because that's the kind of society I want to live in.

Easier said than done, I know, but hey, get motivated, the world does need people with guts; the guts and the skill to sort out those who would reek their havoc unhindered by you, me, the police, whoever.

At the end of the day we get what we tolerate and good people walking by doesn't make the world a better place; good people need to be strong and stick together to weed out the scum. Otherwise if we're completely happy to defer all responsibility to the police for our safety and the safety others, sadly one day we may have to wake to the fact - all battered black and blue and maybe to within an inch of our life - we live in a very weak society where help comes late if help's coming at all.

I'm not saying we have to rush into battle, but that if we're going to do it then we should from a calm and centered belief in ourselves, grounded in training. Otherwise, why are we here? Are we practising martial artists to become stronger people and put pay to the chaos, building stronger communities in which we care for each other, or have we merely embarked on some misguided adventure where the blind lead the blind, modelling nothing but some indifferent route that preaches the self over the whole?

I don't know, maybe I'm a dreamer, but I'd like to think there are those amongst us who have moved beyond the "I'm alright Jack" attitude and the rivalries of the various martial arts, who through actually being motivated to confront such violent behaviour are at the least prepared to stand together on issues like this. Even if it's through talk, at least that's a start.

The sad thing about your post my friend is not that you felt hesitant - that's perfectly understandable - but that you sensed no-one else seemed bothered around you. It shouldn't be that we see these things happening and not come together because we are scared. Or is it we are scared because we know we're alone?

Hat's off to you, at least you showed care.

 

I'm not sure what I would've done, but here's one option:

Discretely follow them, and if things got out of hand, call the police.

 

Fair enough but I'd leave that decision up to the police. They have much more experience with this sort of thing and are always going to respond to the priority calls. But if there was a patrol in the area it may have been worth a drive by for example.

 

There's a group out of Washington State called Insights Training Center. I forget which of their guys came up with it (probably Greg Hamilton or Jeff Mau) , but it's a pretty good guideline in regards to "getting involved". The jist is that you should do what it takes to maximize your enjoyment of beer and TV.

Now on the surface that seems kinda funny, and it is (which will help you remember it). But when you think about it, it really holds up well.

For instance, if I was sitting in my home, I hear a noise outside, I look through the window and see some dude breaking into my car... well, here in Texas I am allowed within the boundaries of the law to use force (including deadly force) to protect my property. But just because I CAN do it doesn't mean I SHOULD do it. There's no question that, especially living in more liberal Austin/Travis County, that if I shot someone even in legitimate defense that I'm at least going to go to a grand jury. That's going to cost me thousands of dollars in lawyer fees, lots of my time, and who knows what else. So, how does that help me maximize enjoyment of beer and TV? Or, I could take a picture of the guy, get a good description, call the police, and hey... isn't that why I have insurance? And then, I can go back to sitting in front of the TV with a beer.

Then consider if someone was to attack my wife, my children, and/or myself. I think if I didn't step up and do something about it would likely hamper my ability to enjoy beer and TV.

So think about that. Doing things to maximize your enjoyment of beer and TV is really a good guide to follow. But again, it's only a guide.

When it comes to self-defense, are you in it to preserve the life of yourself and those you love? Or are you in it to be a hero? This is where you have to be clear on what you are willing to do or not to do, and if the costs are worth the benefits (if there are any). I mean, if some guy is holding up a convenience store while I'm in there, am I going to be a hero and try to take out the robber? Well... is that going to allow me to maximize my enjoyment of beer and TV? Maybe, maybe not. It's a personal question and a question specific to the exact situation/circumstance at hand. If the place is merely being robbed, is it worth dying over $120 in some store's cash register? If the dude turns and points his gun at me tho, or starts to shoot all the witnesses, that certainly changes things.

So you need to ask yourself, should you get involved in someone else's business?

You have no idea what that confrontation was about. I've done a lot of "tactical" training, Force-on-Force stuff, scenarios and such, where it's not just physical skills (be it punching, or grappling, or shooting, or whatever) but more designed to make you think. Many times scenarios will be designed to be something other than you might expect, to get you to think and accept that what you see may not be what YOU interpret it to be. For instance, you're walking up to a store and someone runs out the door... then seconds later another person comes out and points towards that person and yells "stop that man!!" Our likely assumption is the first guy was the crook and the second was the guy that got robbed. But why couldn't it be that the first guy was an innocent just trying to escape, and the second was the crook trying to throw you off so he could make his escape!

Thus, getting involved can be a risky venture. And is it worth it to you? Is it worth you getting broken bones? losing time off work? big medical bills? losing your life? Can you maximize your beer and TV enjoyment? There is no one answer here. Everyone is different, every situation is different. I'm not saying to get involved, I'm not saying to not get involved. What you need to do is start to think about these things and try to gain a clearer picture of just where your lines are drawn and what you are and are not willing to do. You may not be able to answer the specific question at hand, but the more you've considered, the less hazy the answer will be when the time comes.

Here's something:

http://www.teddytactical.com/index_files/Page451.htm

These guys are certainly more firearms based, but look at the archive of "Tactical Scenarios", especially the ones that include "answers". They can provide you some food for thought.

Another thing to do is play the "what if" game while you're out and about during the day. What could you do if something happened right now? What if that guy over there starting doing blah? It's better to think about these things now, ahead of time, so that you can weed out the bad decisions when it doesn't matter, and you're not trying to formulate a plan when it does matter.

Don't kick yourself over this. You did what you thought was best and right, and by sharing here you're able to learn and also enable others to learn from your experience. That's a good thing.

 

you have a good head on your shoulders keep it up!

Amerikick

 

I see this is an old one... but since it has been bumped. I've got into trouble a couple of times trying to be a hero when I didn't realise it was a couple. I've seen a guy pull a woman by the hair, both shouting and screaming at each other to go in and say something like "leave her alone" only to have the woman turn around on me and >.< this is my BF mind your own "<enter expletives of choice here> business, and have them both turn on me. I'd usually hold my hands up (in a surrender way) apologise and leave. One thing I always noticed, at least they stop arguing.

Other things you could have tried is pure distraction, ask woman or man, hey have you got the time? If the guy gets aggressive or violent, just "woah woah, sorry was just asking for the time". Let the woman get away etc.

 

Call the police immediately, don't let the possible criminal know you're calling about him. Act like you could care less, stay to his back if possible. Don't let him know you are watching or care.

If he started hitting the woman then run up to another guy and say lets get him. Then go up to him and make a swing outside his range. To let him know you're engaged in violence with him. Stay outside his range and dance around. Do this to create a spectacle. If he charges you jump to one side of him, always staying outside his range.

Give the woman time to escape. Play football with him as if you were the running back and he was the linebacker. Stay outside his range and make a few fast swings and be ready to dart to the side.

Eventually he'll get tired, since you are in shape and he isn't. Maybe, the cops will arrive, maybe someone else will help.

Oh yeah, before you engaged check to see if he has buddies with him.

 

Maybe, the side walks are narrow where you live?

 

Cool, thanks for the pic. Also, have you never seen two men in a fist fight in the middle of the street? It stops traffic. Well at least it should

 

No, should I?

Heck, you can go to to utube or whatever site and see fights in the middle of the street,