Aliveness - Alive training methods

I've got the sneaking suspicion you are agreeing with each other in different ways.

I can't throw a left hook a thousand times in a sparring session. Does that mean I shouldn't spar?...no. Does it mean I shouldn't throw it a thousand times on a bag?...no.

 

Exactly, all I said that got people annoyed was that I thought that "alive" and "dead" was a bit of a false dichotomy. Both are useful, dead is useless on its own, but it doesn't follow that alive therefore must be the only way.

The thing is, as it stands the lines are a bit blurred between them anyway. Which is why I said I think of them a two ends of a spectrum, rather than incompatible concepts.

 

Absolutely.

I do think that the visualisation skills needed to perform well in shadowboxing are a league above kata though. It also has the advantage of always being entirely relevant to the skill level and training goals of the student.

Still though, does imaginary pressure still count as "alive"?

 

Sorry, missed this one.

To me that is a redundancy introduced in the name of progression, rather than an actual progression.

If you are comfortable with striking moving targets as they are exposed on a resisting opponent, why do you need to begin a pad drill with a set sequence of moves?

I think for people who aren't comfortable with striking moving targets as they are exposed on a resisting opponent, that is a great progression, and one I do myself (though never in long sequences of set moves). I don't see the utility for people who are well used to it though.

What benefit does it provide to begin with a set sequence?

 

Yes. I totally agree. It is a progression. And that is where things really get interesting. One feeds into the other and vice versa. I might teach a student a 'technique' and then do a 'drill'. Once they have the basic movement down of the 'drill' we begin to play varying up the timing and distance. Continually checking the monitoring and then start to play with baits. So often I see student want to go fast but neglect the distance and timing. So drills can be useful for practicing such things. Then of course you have to spar. That is where you start to integrate what you learned in your so called 'dead' training to the real situation.

I also think that their exists a huge chasm in the idea of 'aliveness' between grappling and striking arts. They need to be handled differently in a sense. I can work an getting an arm bar on a training partner using full resistance for an hour. The same can not be said for throwing a jab.

Also, if you spar without a good coach you are likely to ingrain bad habits. Yes, technically you were training 'alive' but doing it very wrong. Unfortunately I see ossification on one end or the other especially in FMA. Either it's all spar all the time with no focus on actual fighting principals, or it is dead pattern drills.

I guess what I am saying is....I agree.

 

Whose getting defensive? You have talked about what you mean for 7 pages and some still have questions since you are vocal on this subject I simply suggested maybe making your point by a different medium?

 

Of course it is above Kata because shadow boxing is not a set pattern. You have tools and you work them. You work feints which can be broken down to eyes, hand, shoulder, feet, head, throw away strikes etc and then work the combinations within and you have a whole world to explore. And that's just working on feinting!

I don't see Kata as a form of shadow boxing because as I understand it is a set pattern. Where as the whole idea of shadow boxing is you visualise a dynamic opponent in front of you and play.

 

I don't think anyone has said anywhere aliveness means against a resisting opponent it's been said you need timing energy and motion and your drills.need to directly carry over to your desired sparring outcome

Which good pad work does, however the number of good pads holders out there is few and the number ingraining bad habits such as hands down, bad distancing, over complicated combinations etc are numerous, holding pads is an art form not many do well

 

I guess I misread the tone. Easy to do, apologies.

I've given my opinion on making MA videos numerous times on MAP. It's not something I have any interest in.

I've been asking questions about Matt Thornton's video for however many pages, so I'm not convinced it would a more efficient medium

 

Edisco, I dug out this old article/blog post for you.

http://aliveness101.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/notes-on-drilling.html?m=1

Thought you might appreciate it and find pertinent to your op.

 

Thanks KR! There's a lot of content in that article so will have to reread it a few times. Thing is, I've been doing just boxing for about 9 months and when I recently started sparring at just 30%, all my fine technique went out the window. I was just hitting heavy bag, shadow boxing and doing padwork. This shouldn't be reflected on my instructor! He told me the importance of footwork even when doing bagwork/pads etc. I've been working on my left hook and jab but now I realise that in boxing FOOTWORK IS GOD! AMEN. That's why I've been looking for stuff on Aliveness. But the positive is I can now take hits without flinching or shutting eyes. Headaches after sparring going away and kind of enjoying sparring. I'd never go full contact though! sparred at 80% two times and became a brawler lol

 

Thanks for posting that.

There's lots to like about that article, and the format of an essay is the correct one to be putting those ideas across, in my opinion.

I particularly like the idea of giving students a varied toolkit from which specialisation and "style" will manifest organically from sparring. This is something that just isn't possible with dead, compliant training alone.

His thoughts on money and who you should train are also good.

I couldn't help notice that he consistently referred to the isolation stage as drilling though, so maybe my terminology isn't as far from his as some would have me believe

 

Not that I can contribute much to this thread, but I noticed something. Matt, showed a Kali counter, and made the assertion that the feeder stopped his attack at a predefined point, which allowed him to do the counter. Well, when I was doing it at the local Club, and at the place I visited in Waterloo, We did not stop our swing if we were the feeder. If you missed your counter you got hit. Now we didn't go full bore, as most of the time we were not wearing gear, but still it was nothing like the stop in place and let the defender work with out resistance. That is the domain of Karate and its off shoots, TKD and TSD.

IS there FMA schools out there that have their feeders just stop mid swing? I was under the impression it was also practice for the feeders attacks, so not doing the attack correctly would shortchange both feeder and Defenders training.