Aikido Techniques

Discussion in 'Aikido' started by 0gmios, Jun 17, 2007.

  1. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    The main reason that Mochizuki did not inherit aikido from O SEnsei was that it would have ment entering the Ueshiba family through marraige.Nakakura did enter into the ueshiba family but eventually left to pursue kendo.

    regards koyo

    Just found this one of tai tari striking with the body.I have just struck Derek with my shoulder and hip. The Glasgow kendoka have made an art of this.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 26, 2007
  2. Archibald

    Archibald A little koala

    This, in my opinion, is how it should be done.

    The two main principles of Tsutsumi Jujutsu and (feel free to correct me Ogmios or Kensei) Yoseikan are:

    1. Move offline of the attack with taisabaki
    2. Unbalance your attacker and control the weapon.

    These principles apply whether the weapon be a hand, foot, knife, stick, jo, sword, gun........

    P.S I hope you Aikidoka don't mind me butting in with my oponions :love: I'm findin this thread very intersting. If it counts for anything, I have done a few Yoseikan lesssons, hehe.
     
  3. 0gmios

    0gmios Valued Member

    Hi Koyo,

    I am aware of this. Mochizuki Sensei had already met his wife when he was first asked buy Ueshiba to marry his daughter. The second time he was asked, he was already married, I assume Ueshiba wanted someone of Mochizuki's calibre to oversee the dojo, which would presumably include teaching Kisshomaru.

    What I found interesting was the statement:
    I can find no source of information that Mochizuki was involved in Kisshomaru's training, and from what I have been told, he wasn't. When Kisshomaru strted martial arts in 1937-8 he was doing Kendo, and was apparently sent by his father to study Kashima. Since in an interview Kisshomaru says he did not like kendo, it may be safe to assume that he was also sent by his father to study that. The reason was the O'Sensei wanted to learn the sword disciplines and felt the he could not just walk into the dojo and say, "I am the renown budoka, Ueshiba Morihei, I have come for a beginners class in kendo." :D
    Kisshomaru also states that he did not start training in Aikido seriously until 42-43. This supports what I was told, in conjunction with what is in Aikido Journal, that Mochizuki chose not to, on the offer to take over the Aikikai which was at the time at the Kobukan, due to the fact that it should be Kisshomaru.

    Regards,
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2007
  4. kensei1984

    kensei1984 Panda Power!

    Not quite what I meant. Kisshomaru was disappointed that people didn't look up to him as he was the supposed "successor" to the art, cause at that time he was a stockbroker or something, and was barely on the mat. Mochizuki pointed this out to him, and Kisshomaru set aside his job to be on the mat full time.
     
  5. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Did he forget to IRRIMI?? :D :D :D

    regards koyo

    Principles are effective not techniques. Our basic principle DO NOT GET HIT.
    Use mobility rather than blocks.
    IRRIMI against mae geri
     

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    Last edited: Jun 26, 2007
  6. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    He had worked hard for the hit and earned it. I don't grudge him it at all.

    The Bear.
     
  7. 0gmios

    0gmios Valued Member

    I don't know, Mochizuki Sensei left for Mongolia in 37, and did not return until 45. Kisshomaru started training seriously in 42-43. So how did Mochizuki set him straight?
     
  8. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    AIKIDO AND TANTO

    Kote gaeshe seams to be a "favourite" technique against a knife. In my opinion it is NOT the most effective. Basic mistake in kote gaeshe is to turn the wrist in a large circle. If this is done against a knife you can cut your own throat. Again this brings me to the execution of empty hand techniques as though the attacker is ALWAYS armed.

    Below David has executed kote gaeshe properly using the powerful entry of his hip and TURNING THE WRIST "WHERE IT LIES" in a small circle.

    regards koyo
     

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  9. 0gmios

    0gmios Valued Member

    I would agree that kote gaeshi is the standard Aikido technique against a knife. My teacher always demonstrates the wrong way to do it (the big circle) and emphasises that it should be a small circle, basically to break the wrist.

    I have not really seen any "real" attack however. Most people seem to just give the knife to the other person, with the thrust being too telegraphed and then overcommitted.
     
  10. 0gmios

    0gmios Valued Member

    Tanto Dori

    A technique I found interesting while I was on Musha Shugyo in the US, was Motari Komi. Was going to explain, here is the image :D
     

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  11. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Hi Graham

    I must agree that the attacks are often telegraphed. This is so wrong. It is the short jabs after closing with no warning that a knife is present that are the most dengerous.Indeed we tend to control the MAN first rather than concentrate on the knife.
    Below from a short thrust irrimi and atemi across the face control the arm. The strike can continue onto a strangle and the trapped arm "braced" to make him drop the knife or have the arm broken. Almost all of our knife "taking" is done AFTER the man has been stunned unbalanced and pinned.

    regards koyo
     

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  12. 0gmios

    0gmios Valued Member

    Tanto Dori

    But how do you irimi past a short front hand thrust?

    I went to another school here, and we were doing tanto dori one day, and I thought that the attacks and techniques were basically ****. I was training with people at my level and up (I was a 4th kyu at the time). Basically I could stab them all, so I would always start with "good" attacks and work down until they could get the technique to work. The black belt obviously didn't approve of this, and told me I should be training at there level (I was they were my grade or higher, and I must say the lower the level the nicer I was). He then told me to attack him so he could show me how it is supposed to be done. I stabbed him square in the chest, he couldn't do a thing, I how ever made the mistake of then attacking him again at a lower level, and now he had my arm he thought he would try and break...
     
  13. kensei1984

    kensei1984 Panda Power!

    :rolleyes: All the interview said was that Mochizuki had a "talk" to Kisshomaru and told him to be more available to the students than to his dayjob. That's all that Mochizuki said, according to the interview. If you really want to know the details you'll have to ask the interviewer.
     
  14. 0gmios

    0gmios Valued Member

    Good point, I could ask Stan.
     
  15. kensei1984

    kensei1984 Panda Power!

    In my experience with Tanto tori, you have to give them a good atemi nice and hard after evading the knife. A good knife fighter will stab and slash quick and leave nothing for you to purchase.
     
  16. 0gmios

    0gmios Valued Member

    Tanto Dori

    A good knife fighter uses both hands equally. How then can you give them a good atemi, since the other hand is used for blocking and escaping?
     
  17. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    A good aikidoka shall attempt to enter to the "blind side" negating the attack from the other limb.
    Below a straight close thrust to the face is countered by irrimi the deflection would work as well against a knife the atemi to the ribs is executed on the move the arm can be trapped and a strangle applied.

    Since the art is applied from sankaku ho (triangular posture) sharpening it to evade a direct thrust (hito imi) making the body small can be done in an instant.

    WE must remember that we do not STAND STILL presenting a target. Many principles apply before contact. Fighting spirit, timing, distancing and observation all of these are in play BEFORE contact.

    KUDEN
    The instant of contact he must be struck off balance.

    regards koyo

    Kensei

    I would ammend that to a good atemi is applied WHILE evading the knife.(rather than after) Evasion striking and unbalancing ALL happen in an instant.Often when he is "preparing" his attack.
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 26, 2007
  18. kensei1984

    kensei1984 Panda Power!

    Exactly as koyo said. Otherwise what else is there to do? Run away? :D Attacking the blind side is your best chance. I'm making no guarantees, but that is the most logical way to go.

    koyo old man, you know what I mean...lol.
     
  19. 0gmios

    0gmios Valued Member

    I don't attack with the other limb, I block with it. When knife fighting (part of kenjutsu) I have learnt to lead with the empty hand, strike with the knife from the back hand, and use the front hand to stop any defence. When fighting weapon to weapon, I lead with the weapon, to attack the weapon carrying hand in a counter attack.

    Hitoemi, single ply body (ply like toilet paper thickness). We have a few techniques in kenjutsu that are called hitoemi. Each relays on just evading the attack to counter strike.

    I think this is the most important point, but all to often I see people training to stay still to take a weapon from a moving attacker.

    I find that if I am not using both hand to control the weapon arm I am getting cut. I guess this is why some of our techniques involve grabbing the arm, pulling uke off balance, and kicking with the leading leg.
     
  20. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    At this seminar there were upwards from two hundred budoka. Karate jujutsu tai kwon do judo and vatious "schools" of aikido.I asked for somone to attack me and as he approached I downed him with irrimi nage (again).He did not get the chance to attack. I instructed the class to do this technique. EVERYONE of them waited until the partner was in "training distance" before executing the technique and a number of the attackers even asked what attack should I use. :confused:
    Every single one of these budoka started from maai (mutual fighting distance) Afterward it was different and some "robust" techniques were applied. :D :D
     

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