aikido principles

Discussion in 'Aikido' started by koyo, Jun 28, 2007.

  1. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Hi Pirate

    I shared a flat in soho with a win chun teacher Aun Ho I was quick to learn that. The pleasures of cross training. :)

    regards koyo
     
  2. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Is there a principle in Aikido that goes something like:

    "Always throw someone into something"

    I was not given this principle from Aikido but was given it from other sources in martial arts, however, it always seemed fitting in multiple attacker randori found in Aikido to use uke as body shields verse other attackers, even throwing them into each other.

    The way I have interpreted this is not unlike the Zen analogy of an "arrow in flight." It is not to deliberately throw someone into something, because I feel that causes the telegraphing of intentions and is likely to meet with the most resistance. Instead, to allow things to flow and drop where they will but guide them so that they hit hard and by surprise. I would say something similar to the game of pool or billiards, where each shot lines the ball up for the next shot.
     
  3. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Hi Rebel

    I assume you are speaking of a practical situation so yes, whatever works. Once a young idiot picked up a pool cue to threaten me . I pointed out that he had ONE pool cue while I had a DOZEN pool balls, no contest. Whatever works.

    regards koyo
     
  4. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Great story.

    Actually though, Koyo, I was trying to start a conversation about whether "always throwing someone into something" is a principle, and if so, in what context does it apply?
     
  5. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Hi Rebel

    My thoughts on this would be to throw the an opponent into the final kuzushi. Since he has already been struck and unbalanced this is not always necessary however there is a kuzushi at the close of a technique that "kind of spirals" him making it impossible for a sutemi or last minute counter or indeed to execute a ukemi if that is your intent.

    Shi ho nage meaning four direction throw os more correctly "anywhere" throw can throw the attacker in any direction that we choose. After many years training this stands true for most techniques so we can choose to throw the attacker into any visible object.

    In multiple attacks as you have stated we can use one opponent to block off the others or throw him into them.

    There is no hard and fast rule that we should ALWAYS throw the opponent into something but if that would be the most effective action that is what we would do.


    regards koyo

    Here one attacker is blocked the other is about to have the first attacker thrown at him.
     

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  6. kensei1984

    kensei1984 Panda Power!

    One of the best methods to unbalance....it's usually the easiest way.
     
  7. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    CROSS TRAINING

    Sice most of the original aikidoka in Britain were judoka, cross training was an integral part of aikido. Today more and more cross training is neglected and indeed not encouraged. Another phenemenon that I see is the tendancy to demand that the attacker "harmonise" so as to allow the aikidoka to study/perform the technique.

    Intially we should be studying the principles of body alignment and unbalancing this is impossible with a partner who "harmonises" with us.This "principle" of harmonising has been taken to extremes. I have seen the aikidoka simply turn his hand in a circle and for some reason the "attacker" follows it around until it is time to fall.Another concept often used is to "lead" the opponent off balance. One cannot be unbalanced directly in the direction he is moving, he must be unbalanced to the side forward or backward.

    Cross training shall instantly expose many misconceptions taught by some modern day teachers.Cross training with karateka shall teach that the attacking hand dose not stay out there and indeed the attacker has another hand , elbows knees and feet.

    With kendoka the use of the sword and the ability to go from zero to one hundred per cent in an instant changes the dynamics of an encounter.Rather than get into the habit of training comfortably within the dojo I would recommend cross training to any martial artist who truly wishes to test and better his understanding of his own art.

    Sadly I do not see this becomong a popular option until recently the makotokai presented a demonstration of aikido at the International Kendo Embu and Taikai in Edinburgh. There were exponents of numerous traditional arts such as Iaido Kendo Kyudo Jodo Judo Karate and Shoriji Kempo. We had taster sessions and learned a great deal from each other.The politicians decided that these type of demonstrations should not continue.

    It is with great sadness that I recall the summer schools where judoka karateka and aikidoka would mix freely and mutual respect was gained through these meetings.

    regards koyo

    IKET
     

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  8. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    IN post 2006 I mentioned that the final kuzushi of a technique "kind of spirals" the attacker. Below you can see that Derek is being spun around me "horizontaly" just at the moment his weight comes over his foot the cut takes him over the edge of that foot verticaly. This creates the spiral in his ukemi making it most difficult for him to apply a sutemi or counter.You can also see the "sword cut" used to throw him.

    regards koyo
     

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  9. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    Having had direct experience of this type of training I would agree. To take ukes' balance by "leading" directly forwards, uke needs to over stretch their reach. Which is an approach that just isn't reliable.
     
  10. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    I feel "leading" an opponent off balance is a hit or miss affair regardless. An experienced opponent will not over extent themselves to the point of allowing you to "lead" them. I am a far bigger fan of entering into a kuzushi to cause off balance.

    The Bear.
     
  11. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Which addresses the next principle..atemi. The instant you enter into a kuzushi (closing with the opponent) you become vulnerable to a strike. So every unbalancing must be accompanied with a pre-emptive strike from the aikidoka.
    Another use of atemi is when you meet resistance, rather than struggle to enforce the technique strike the opponent before moving on. An accomplished martial artist will never resist a technique (as in struggle) but shall strike or counter it.

    Below sensing the resistance to the technique while entering to the kuzushi I have chosen to strike first and then apply a technique.

    regards koyo
     

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    Last edited: Jul 13, 2007
  12. macker

    macker Valued Member

    In class on Wednesday, the techniques we practised required entering very close to the attacker, punching/striking through the rib area, and assuming a position behind the attacker. Closing the gap/space we were able to use our bodies to throw the attacker, off our hips. Unbalance the attacker, and also to minimize the power of their attack should it strike. Closing the space/gap also allowed us to completly smother the attacker and gain complete control of them.
    I hope i have explained this well enough to fit into this thread.
     
  13. dentoiwamaryu

    dentoiwamaryu Valued Member

    Sounds like you where working on IRIMI NAGE principles macker, easily one of the most useful techs and principles in aikdio and so adaptable to real life and street attacks. i usually like to teach as a henka to irmi, when entering and striking the ribs to snap the back of the knee when behind and choke them out.
     
  14. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    yep sounds a bit like this one with an added strike on entry.

    regards koyo
     

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