Aikido in a "Real Fight"

Discussion in 'Aikido' started by xplasma, Jun 17, 2003.

  1. Hannibal

    Hannibal Angriest MAP resident.... Supporter

    On the whole agree, but the "cannot recall in great detail" part is not entirely accurate - adrenaline does funny things and many people "go blank" or get "tunnel vision". Some even get "time distortion" when everything slows down

    However, if you have been in enough confrontations or high pressure drills AND articulation is part of your practice then you can recall almost everything. If your practice contains "who, what, why, where, when and how" then this carries over into your reality

    Even if you cannot there are cognitive interview techniques that are proven to assist in optimizing recall of events in witnesses, victims and offenders

    The aftermath in a self protection scenario is rarely covered sadly - I make it a prerequisite.
  2. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Ok go and take a weeks worth of aikido lessons and when you next fight MMA just use what you have been taught and no other techniques. I'm not talking about a few wrist locks but everything you are taught and nothing else you know....
  3. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Yep and the training methods and everything else you do is nothing like aikido, so what we are basically saying is if you want to make aikido work drop the compliant training, drop the silly over committed attacks, stop doing forms or unrealistic one and two man katas, train like an athlete, do hard contact sparring, also cross train, does anyone really think if they did that aikido would look anything like it currently does?
    It will ne akin to what happened to karate when they tried full contact with head strikes it morphed into kick boxing and was totally unrecognizable hand wise from boxing .
  4. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    Possibly not entirely accurate. Yea.
    If someone ,though ,claims they know how they had their feet, or what specific move they did...''i put my hand here, then a did this. i grabbed his wrist here..moved to here and etc etc...'' . Even how many punches if its a few, then it has me wondering. You do your best but its not technicaly perfect it just comes out how it does. Afterwards it can seem like this or that like that but it doesnt mean its true.
  5. Kframe

    Kframe Valued Member

    That's awfully arbitrary. Why on gods not so green earth would he do that? That is suicide in a mma fight. If he goes and takes a few lessons I am positive, given his experience that he would be able to make something work, built upon the foundation of his extensive mma experience..
  6. Hannibal

    Hannibal Angriest MAP resident.... Supporter

    It can be done quite readily and is done so on a daily basis by professionals in all wlaks of life. Boxers and MMA fighters are able to do it immediately after a match and isnt any different than any other skill- it just takes practice and experience

    Now I will add a caveat that the best recollection is the finish and the bigger the gap between that and the initiation the harder it is to recall in exact detail. As most "street" fights occur in seconds start to finish for the physical it is not usually that complicated to recall
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015
  7. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    Mmmm. I guess it depends on the amount of detail. Maybe its individual too.
    Boxing and MMA are not always dog fights, so to speak.
    I mean a person can say they threw a left hook but cant say where their elbow was or if their chin was covered well..if their foot position was entirely correct. Sometimes things are done and your not sure exactly how.
    For example I have covered or done something to stop being hit then thrown a flurry punches back but cant recall any details overwise...type of many....the technicalities....too chaotic.

    Aikido isnt boxing or MMA either...theres more detail.
  8. Hannibal

    Hannibal Angriest MAP resident.... Supporter

    Have you tried cognitive recollection? What I mean is that you are right that individual recollection of an incident is unreliable by "default" - but so is their physical skill

    If you train to recollect guess what happens? You get better at it :)

    Try "narrating" your drive home today and you will be amazed at what you see/notice that you may not even be aware of. This is how the Emergency Response drivers train to react quickly- it starts external, becomes internal and quickly becomes viseceral. This is another example of the Color Code principle. Its easy to recollect if the main picture is "preloaded"
  9. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

  10. Hannibal

    Hannibal Angriest MAP resident.... Supporter

    That was horrible!!
  11. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    But it makes a difference if you learned only from books or if you had actually instructors over a longer course of time.
  12. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    I see what your saying about emergency services, but thats more for reacting quickly at that moment. And for people having to write reports or something on incidents, yea, im sure theres ways to enhance this.

    But for a high intense emergency at real fight be able to ,whilst someone tries to kick your head able to think about or know, at the same time the details of how your moving?
    No way. Yea I would not say never, of course. But its unlikely.
    What ever now comes out of you...any training..has to be left to come out and you have to just deal with whats going on and do your best on the spot. With the likelyhood that things will not be techinicaly perfect but might be there or there abouts...things will miss...things will go have to ride it out and just make it up and go with what evers happening, on the spot. If a person concentrated on analysing themselves they would get destroyed. Theres too much else going on.
    Even in competative fights or spars its not easy. Coaches are there for point out things you dont even know your doing..or not doing. Video analazys is there for this too. We could all just teach ourselves if it was that easy.
  13. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Everyone is different but in general, there are things that help. For example:

    1) Experience. Having first hand experience and for most second hand experience can help because you will be more familiar with the situation. Time will slow down and you will be able to stay more calm. Additionally, experience in similar situations or through simulations can be developed through training and study. The only caveat is that if you are traumatized, bringing yourself back into a similar situation might have unpredictable results.

    2) Intuition. Being able to trust your intuition allows your body to act while freeing the mind for important decisions. Applicable muscle memory, removal of internal conflicts, and having a "play/run book" can help with this. One of the issues with trusting intuition is you don't really know if you can unless you have experience in the situation to fall back on. Basically, you need to be tested, otherwise you won't really know if you have internal conflicts that lead to indecision.

    3) Priority. Pretty much most intellectual approaches are concerned, IMHO, with focus and practice. If you know what priorities are important, you can practice to focus on those priorities, while leaving some room for the unexpected. Sort of like looking in a room and instead of scanning for everything, knowing what specific things to look for first and "tagging them" from processing. This takes training and knowledge, but gets easier with practice.
  14. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    You must have been in a serious amount of dogfights, violent encounters, full contact fights,spars and drills to be able to be consciously arrange yourself in detail and make a mental note of it whilst dealing with incoming information as someone tries to kick your head in and to be able to respond accordingly in this chaos and be aware of what's going on around.....all at the same time.
  15. Hannibal

    Hannibal Angriest MAP resident.... Supporter

    Practice makes perfect - like I said when you start with the smaller things the bigger things can be done too. I bet you can do it better than you think you just have never tried.
  16. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Depends if the practice itself is perfect or quality. People can practice garbage and it still will not be perfect :p
  17. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    So your saying you can consciously arrange yourself in detail and make a mental note of it ,in a dogfight and violent encounter, at the same time as dealing with whats coming at you and making split second decisions on how to the same time?
  18. Hannibal

    Hannibal Angriest MAP resident.... Supporter

    You can condition yourself to recollect events in greater deatil yes - this is not revolutionary and is taught in police services globally

    Because you dont have experience you are taking it as an "all at the same time" deal - it isnt. It is cognitive recollection post event that reflects training and prep pre event and in light of the actual event

    Standard practice for victim, offender and witness interviews

    Did you try what I suggested?
  19. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    I see.
    I thought we were going to go into la la land for a minute.
    Dont worry about my experience,I dont talk about things I havnt done.

    I have looked into that kind of stuff in the past and still do as part of training for incoming information but not, I admit, to remember things.
    Its not top of my list . As in im happy with just a vague idea and not getting destroyed and am not bothered about technical details.

    And, like I said, in my opinion a person saying they can think back and remember if their foot got a good turn and their elbow was correctly alligned and they did this...then that....or some other physical , technical details, then they are exagerating, not being honest with themselves or maybe making it up because theres too much going on in a dog fight to deal with, or think, or make a note of that kind of detail.
  20. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member

    When I fight I can remember some aspects of it, but not necessarily in the right order, and there are a few parts you forget, such as transitions and obviously, striking.

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