Aikido in a "Real Fight"

Discussion in 'Aikido' started by xplasma, Jun 17, 2003.

  1. xplasma

    xplasma Banned Banned

    Hi everyone,


    I would like everyone opinion this. I started Aikido 1 month ago. I currently train in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Bujinkan Ninpo, and Krav Maga. I am finding aikido to be very ineffective in reality fighting or even standard street fights. I have left my Tae Kwon Do training at Yellow Belt for the same reason. Can anyone give me input on this?


    -plasm,a
     
  2. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    I read how styles ending in do are more martial way than martial art. It said how they had a way of doing things, which was effective and a good training tool, but the style wasn't a fighting art such as the ones ending in su ie Jujitsu. Seems to be some truth in it.....
     
  3. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Sure - you're passing judgement on the effectiveness of an art after training it for a MONTH?

    Bwaaaaaaahaaaaaahaaaahaahahaaaaa...

    How many "Standard street fights" have you tried out your Aikido in during the last month?
     
  4. xplasma

    xplasma Banned Banned

    I do alot of NHB fighting with my friends. That Where I tried it out.

    I plan to keep with Aikido for at least for the rest of summer.

    I just want opinion of people who *has* trained in Aikido longer.
     
  5. aikiMac

    aikiMac boxing is fun Moderator Supporter

    Ever hear of Shaolin kung fu? Would you like to fight an adult Shaolin monk? Do you think he learned how to fight in one month?

    I don't know what ninpo is, but I know what krav maga and BJJ are. Maybe you shouldn't be taking aikido. Mixing aikido with BJJ and krav maga is like drinking beer while eating chocolate candy and then complaining that your candy doesn't taste good. They don't belong together.

    KM and BJJ are about fighting. Aikido is about not fighting. KM and BJJ teach you how to fight. Aikido teaches you how to not fight. In KM and BJJ you charge your opponent. In aikido you wait for the attack to come to you. In KM and BJJ you use your muscles against your opponent's muscles. In aikido you don't even have an opponent because you're not fighting, but semantics aside, in aikido you don't use your muscles. You use the other guy's muscles. In KM and BJJ you get in the other person's face so that you can hit, choke, whatever. In aikido you get out of his face, and get out of his way altogether.

    You get the picture? They're opposites.

    Krav maga was designed for war, literally. Aikido was designed with the hope of stopping war. BJJ was designed for street fights, literally. Aikido was designed to stop street fights. They're opposites.

    That said, aikido can work just as well as KM or BJJ in a street fight, but it's going to take a lot more time to develop fighting skill from aikido than from either KM or BJJ. Have you considered that aikido was designed to deal with multiple attackers, but KM and BJJ were not? That should mean something to you.

    The Shaolin monks didn't learn their kung fu in a month, but crimey! I sure don't want to fight them. In six months of KM you can go from nothing to pretty good. Street-fighting self-defense skill will be there. BJJ might require two years before viable self-defense skills appear because it's a more complicated art. Aikido is exponentially more complicated than BJJ. You'll probably have to stay with aikido six years before the street-fighting skills begin to surface. It's a much more complicated martial art, but when you learn it, yikes, the stuff does work.
     
  6. xplasma

    xplasma Banned Banned

    Ninpo or Ninjutsu is the art Aikido is mostly dervived from. Even though Ninpo still includes strikes. We include many of the void (lack of effort and muscles) techniques that aikido does. I figured Aikido would help me devolped those techniques.
     
  7. xplasma

    xplasma Banned Banned

    "Would you like to fight an adult Shaolin monk? "

    Yes knife-fighter I would.
     
  8. xplasma

    xplasma Banned Banned

    Again Knife Fighter,

    Ninpo is a very effective art for multiple attackers. But you are right is saying KM and especially BJJ is Dueling (one on one) arts.

    sorry for saying this in three posts, I sorta of simmed your post before replying, and every time I reread it I want to posts something else.
     
  9. aikiMac

    aikiMac boxing is fun Moderator Supporter

    ninpo?

    "Ninpo or Ninjutsu is the art Aikido is mostly dervived from."

    Oh. Hmm. Ninjutsu. I've read books and books and more books about aikido, but I never read that aikido derived from ninjutsu. Hmm. Everyone who writes aikido books says that aikido came primarily from aiki-jujitsu and Japanese fencing. Whatever. Doesn't matter.

    I'd like to watch that fight with the Shaolin monk. That'd be pretty cool.
     
  10. xplasma

    xplasma Banned Banned

    The association is not direct. Ninpo was one of orginial arts in what is the martial arts family Aikido belongs to.
     
  11. NotAMonte86

    NotAMonte86 New Member

    Well that doesn't sound too good, cause I just started training in both aikido and TKD!
    I have become very interested in aikido, and I feel that aikido is effective for real life situations, at least from what I'm being taught. We are currently learning how to escape arm grabs, bear hugs, headlocks, etc. From there you can run, or get in a hit or two to slow the attacker down, then run. It's better than taking chances (especially for us beginners!).
    BJJ seems like a tough MA, I know that I would be intimidated taking on someone holding a high rank in that type of fighting. Once you are tackled by a grappler, you are in a bad position. But that pertains to one-on-one fights, which in real life, won't be too common. Most of the time an aggresive person out in public will have back-up, and when that guy grabs you, his friends are right behind YOU. In class we were told about a black belt in judo who got into an altercation with three guys... he took one down, but the other two beat him and he ended up in the hospital in very bad shape.
    Anyway, I hope aikido and TKD help my ability to defend myself in situations. The two go together... first you flow, then you strike. Good luck finding what you like.
     
  12. Spike

    Spike New Member

    Okay let`s throw in another opinion on Aiki`s origins

    as far as I`m aware aikido came from Aiki Jitsu.
    Aiki Jitsu was created by Morehei Oueshiba (O`sensei)
    Before he created his own Art O`sensei practiced Kenjitsu and Ju jitsu. Most of the movements in Aikido are actually sword cuts, which is where the ken jitsu comes in.

    and then you say

    which is it?

    First of all, how close NHB sparring is to a fight is a much debated topic which you can find on the General Topics section of MAP
    Second, Aikido, as with most "TMA" (IMHO) is a slow art to learn it takes a long time to develop the skill to use it in a street situation IMHO
    so if you have little patience or just want results as quick as possible, it`s not for you. If you`re prepared to wait for (Again IMO) a higher level of skill and control stick with it

    I disagree I think they compliment each other and cover holes the other may have

    oh Hell Yeah!

    As would I, friend. As would I.

    Oh and one last thing

    You have much to learn young Grashopper, I agree with YODA.
    Because he`ll hurt me if I don`t :)

    Well, My Kung fu instructor is a doorman, and if he`s restraining people or stopping them causing trouble or just defneding himself, 90% of what he does is Aikido.
     
  13. jejanim

    jejanim New Member

    k...no..u dont wanna fight a shoalin monk...no one does, it will hurt lots. secondly, it takes at least 2 or 3 years before anyone feels comfortable using Aikido in a fight. BUT, when u do get comfy with it, you WILL be a dangerous person. in effect, you are one with your attacker and use the force of the universe(since you learn to be at one with the universe in Aikido) to put him down or break something. stick with it dude, it'll be worth it in a few years.

    jeja
     
  14. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter



    No it wasn't, go back to yer books Spike! ;)

    Ueshiba studied Ken Jutsu at the Tenshin Katori Ryu and was granted the right to teach Aiki Ju Jitsu, he never created it.

    Col
     
  15. Sonshu

    Sonshu Buzz me on facebook

    I will go out on a limb and say I was left

    Feeling Aikido did not blend well with my previous training experience as I felt most of the people I trained with were over compliant and I guess they felt I was a little to strong for some techniques.

    Also there was a fairly naff attitude in the club and a very unfriendly atmosphere. All that aside I took some valuable footwork lessons away from it. To me the missing out of solid striking and kicks often left me feeling as though I never really had hold/control of the person I was with.

    Still this is what I have found. It is a great complimenting style to many others and the footwork was excellent and I feel it is the best style for this as the majority of there defence really does come from the excellent footwork.

    SONSHU
     
  16. KickChick

    KickChick Valued Member

    I'm assuming a this "real fight" is a "streetfight" attack where there may be a surge of fear induced adrenaline.
    Now the effects of this is the loss of fine motor coordination and a limited access to cognitive thinking. Both of these factors weigh heavily against the aikido practitioner.

    So my question is .... isn't there a certain amount of manual dexterity required for most of the wrist manipulations and would Aikido be effective because of the loss of fine motor coordination during this adrenaline stress of a "real attack".
     
  17. aikiMac

    aikiMac boxing is fun Moderator Supporter

    the footwork rules!

    I second that. I've tried a dozen martial arts in various amounts, and I read and talked about many more. I don't know of any martial art with footwork more evasive than aikido's footwork. Trying to hit an aikidoka is like trying to punch the wind because we're never there. I love it!

    One time I sparred with a TKD 2nd dan. I was a nothing, not even a 1st dan in anything at the time, but I was crazy about aikido, and I wanted to try out my new aikido footwork against someone with skill. It worked. Oh he would have broke my ribs several times over if it had been a real fight, but that was after I evaded numerous attacks, and after I grabbed him in a choke hold. So who won? We don't care. I think we sparred for 40 minutes total. He landed a lot of strikes, I landed a few strikes, and I got a lot of chokeholds and takedowns. My point is that aikido's footwork is awesome. It works. If a goofy know-nothing beginner can evade a seasoned 2nd dan and grab his neck, then golly, just think of the possibilities for a seasoned black belt in aikido! Sure, the aikido person might take a few hits, but I think anyone else would too.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2003
  18. Spike

    Spike New Member

    there`s manual dexterity involved in every Martial Art. My earlier point was that Aikido takes years to be formidable in a "street fight" this is because it takes years for it to become a reaction, which your muscles are used to moving in the correct manner they will. you will lose some precision in the adrenaline dump. that could just mean you don`t have the control to avoid breaking someone`s wrist. It doesn`t instantly follow on that because you`re a little less calm that Aikido is not effective.
     
  19. aikiMac

    aikiMac boxing is fun Moderator Supporter

    The uke is always right.

    Yes, manual dexterity is required for the wrist manipulations. You make a fair comment. That is something to keep in mind. But, there are a great many things that you can do without grabbing the wrist. You don't need his wrist, but if you do try a wrist twist of some sort, a failed attempt for one technique very often leaves the opponent wide open for another technique. It might leave you wide open too, but now we're back to footwork and the core of aikido: blend with his energy. The uke is always right, so don't argue with him.
     
  20. xplasma

    xplasma Banned Banned

    THANKS GUYS!

    I am usually very weary about posting on forums, because they normally start flames wars with people who know nothing. This is very different.

    I believe I have the answer I am looking for from your responses, you all seem very knowledgable.

    I will continue aikido for the time being.

    Thanks again.
     

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