Advice needed please... Two styles

Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by Lennon, Jun 5, 2017.

  1. Lennon

    Lennon Member

    I already study Shaolin Kung Fu (Mok Gar) once a week for two hours. I love my class and will remain loyal to them.

    I've just achieved my first sash (yellow) and I really love everything that's involved with training. The problem is, I want to do more than 2 hours per week.

    My class only runs the one session so i was thinking about training another style of Kung Fu at the same time. Maybe Wing Chun...

    My question is two fold;

    1) I've seen people talk about cross training but generally they refer to two different types of Martial Art. For example: kick boxing and Ju Jit Su. Is it wise to practise two different styles of Kung Fu?

    2) What are you opinions on Wing Chun? Do you think it would compliment the Shaolin style I already practise?

    Any advice would be appreciated.
     
  2. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    I wouldn't say that's true. Sure, some people pick opposites, like you said, but other people crosstrain in similar things, e.g. wrestling and BJJ, or western boxing and muay thai. So, picking two kung fu styles wouldn't necessarily be odd.

    I'm not familiar with Mok Gar so I won't address your second question.
     
  3. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    If your training for fun then just do both. It'll take a while to not confuse them but it's not like your life depends on learning martial arts. So just do both and enjoy it :)
     
  4. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Training two different styles of kung fu, MAY be quite confusing, whereas training two completely different forms of martial arts, tends to be easier to train without being confused.

    Judo, wrestling, or BJJ tend to be excellent in addition to a more 'Traditionally trained' martial art such as kung fu.
     
  5. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    Hey Lennon,

    As some have already said you might be better off studying something completely different to the kung fu you are doing. Wrestling/BJJ/Judo.. grappling stuff is a great complement to what you are studying and may well help you to understand some of what you learn better. Certainly it can't hurt.

    I wouldn't start off learning 2 styles of kung fu. Nope, makes no sense.

    Why? Well most styles follow a philosophy of power generation and how they move, make contact/attack/defend etc. If you are doing Mok Gar there is more movement/kicks involving hip/trunk rotation etc in different ways than a style such as Wing Chun. If I may generalise (patience with me please WC peeps, over simplifying to make a point) you move more linearly in WC, attack more linearly in WC and defend more linearly in WC. If you are moving in a more circular fashion or have rising and falling movements then the emphasis on what you are doing will be very different. It is hard enough to learn one form of power generation. Learning 2 opposing types at the same time is way harder. You need enough knowledge and skill to not get confused. The WC sifu will wonder why you are moving in a non WC way. The MG sifu will wonder why you are not always reflexively moving in the MG way.

    I once used to train at WC place where we had a Tai Chi Mantis student come to work out. He really sucked at WC. Didn't have a feel for the movements at all. Thing was when there was a robbery in the shop he was visiting he was able to take down 3 guys with his TC Mantis quite nicely. That was what was ingrained and worked for him.

    So learn which ever system you want to train in but remember that systems need a certain amount of time and repetition to become ingrained. In the meantime learn to enjoy grapping or a weapon art (arnis?kali?escrima? anyone) to fill up that space you need to fill.

    Hope that makes sense.

    Regards, LFD
     
  6. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Great advice :)

    Mitch
     
  7. Lennon

    Lennon Member



    Thank you all for your advice. additional thanks to the above for the detailed response. As mentioned in my post I think that's the reason why I mostly see people cross training different arts rather than styles of the same art.

    Another poster mentioned that it may not be much of a problem if I'm only training for fun - which I am, I don't need it for anything but I do take my training seriously.

    I may just speak to my Mok Gar Sifu and ask what he thinks generally so as not to offend him or my group.

    Thanks again all. I'll let you know my decision and what my Sifu thinks
     
  8. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    When you go to a gym,

    - one instructor teaches you "body unification - all body parts move and stop at the same time",
    - another instructor teaches you "muscle group isolation - while you move arm, you don't move body",

    who are you going to follow?

    When you train

    - Shaolin, you are taught to use body to push/pull your arm.
    - WC, you are taught to move your arm while freezing your body (at least during the beginner level training).

    No matter how long that you may have trained this 2 styles, you will never be able to integrate both together.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
  9. butcher wing

    butcher wing Oi, Fatso!

    How about a private lesson with your Mok Gar Sifu as well as class per week? (depending on whether you can afford both of course.)

    If not look at a grappling/wrestling art or Kali maybe as previously suggested.

    Or get a mate to train with in between classes. that's what I used to do.

    ground based arts and kali are both excellent btw.
     
  10. Lennon

    Lennon Member

    My problem is I don't own a car so anything I take up has to be close by and I have about 3 Wing Chun classes close by which is why I thought of that to start with.

    I don't think my Sifu does private lessons, he doesn't run the class for profit. He does it for enjoyment of teaching and passing on the art. I think he breaks about even most of the time with the room costs etc... I can always ask though.
     
  11. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    From what I recall of Mok Gar; it has similar traits to the long fist styles.

    The kungfu club I spent most time training at, we learnt a mixture of short (wuzuquan) and long (changquan) forms. Over time I don't feel it hindered my training, I believe the attitude of the teachers to learning those techniques and flexibility to the varieties helped.

    When I trained at other striking style clubs (TKD/Karate/Lau Gar/Muay Thai/Kickboxing/Boxing) I found that they would teach the same basic techniques with different approach or structure to the execution, in some cases they would be ok with your "version" of the techniques, other clubs/teachers would consider it to be "wrong".

    Over time I have come to realise that some teachers(and often also the club) would consider a technique not executed in their format as "wrong", it is usually that the teacher has not explored any option outside of their teaching format.

    If you want to continue training under such a teacher (sometimes it is just certain teachers in a club with that perspective) you will find that you need to conform to their format, which may just be another route to executing the technique, and other items you learn from that class you may find more beneficial.
    e.g. I found the power block executed in a "short" style (wuzuquan), was different to that of the long style (TKD/Karate/Long fist/Lau Gar), however it was similar to what I was taught in a kickboxing club.
    Also a straight/cross punch in Long fist had more similar traits to boxing/kickboxing/TKD/Karate, then it did to wuzuquan.

    Having trained the different styles, you can come away with a selection of tools which you feel suits you most for your common used techniques - I train this selection outside of the classes, and inside classes continue to practise the basics in the format for each class school. In sparring I will often use mostly my favoured toolset, but can experiment with other styles to see what works.
     
  12. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    our linage contains several different sytems. so personaly I would say nothing wrong with training different styles of kung fu. BUT..

    I do agree with what most people have said. As relative beginner, you are still working on the fundamentals- power generation, stance, movement.

    There are many different but equally legitimate ways of doing something as simple as a horse stance. Later on you will be able to understand how these differences arise , they will make sense and you will have a better understanding of what a horse stance is meant to achieve. but early on these differences seam arbitrary, confusing, and make learning difficult.

    I would recommend something like boxing, wrestling, judo, or bjj. Not too much overlap to cause confusion about different ways of doing the same thing. but will fit together nicely further down the line.
     
  13. huoxingyang

    huoxingyang Valued Member

    It is my belief that so-called traditional Chinese martial arts are all about homework. What do I mean by that? You go to the effort of learning solo training methods such as forms and solo drills (stand in horse stance and punch). These are things you can go to class to learn, then go home and practice. So my advice is, if you really love Shaolin and want to do more, do more homework :)
     
    Ewiesner likes this.
  14. Lennon

    Lennon Member

    I do this already where possible. I live in a small flat so it can be tricky but when I go out running I stop in the park and work through kick routines and patterns etc.. for half an hour or so.

    I have my class tonight anyway so I'll speak to my Sifu and see what he says in general about mix training. Will be interesting
     
  15. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

  16. Lennon

    Lennon Member

    That's a different class. Mines in Wythall, it's actually closer funnily enough.

    It's funny that Mok Gar is considered a rare form and we have two classes within about 5/10 miles of each other.
     
  17. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    So you're sorted? Time to go down and watch the other class, see if there is anything interesting and possibly (maybe with your sifu's permission) start training there as well. Hey, I wonder if they might even be from another student from the same lineage considering how rare Mok Gar is and the probability of two random MG schools being so close together?

    Still, grappling is good and my recommendation that you also consider a weapons art stands :' )

    LFD
     
  18. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    FYI

    Is this your lineage? Mok Gar is only practiced in a couple discreet locations outside of Hong Kong (supposedly).

    Paul Boyer - Mok Gar

    I practice and run a martial arts class called Shaolin Mok-Gar Kuen Kung
    Fu Practitioner, and have since 1974 under the guidance of my master,
    Charles Chan.

    I teach at a variety of locations, such as David Lloyd, Bannatyne and
    Tudor Grange Sports Centre in the West-Midlands.

    LFD
     
  19. Lennon

    Lennon Member

    My Sifu was not at the class last night so one of the senior students took the class. I believe he did study either under or with Paul Boyer. I've not asked him directly but my digging into the class history seems to suggest this and I'm pretty confident.
     
  20. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    To me, the answer is very simple:

    Train at home!

    You get 2 hours of instruction per week - but where is the practice? In class, you should get down the basics of what the instructor gives to you in that 2 hour period - it is then up to you to take that home and practice, practice, practice until the next class - because what you do in class A will usually be a foundation for the subject of class B, and so on.

    Your teacher will definitely notice your progress, and will appreciate the effort you put in if you practice daily. Even if it's just stances and stepping, basic punches and kicks etc. This will all build the foundation for future learning.

    Saying you want to do more, and looking for another class comes across to me as more than a little impatient, to be honest.
    Genuine martial art skill is not in the collecting of multiple techniques and forms, but of building solid skill through time + effort - "Gong Fu".

    You have more training time - you're just not using it.
     

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