Back on topic...(just posted this above, not sure if it was seen): Sure, aikiwolfie...perhaps another reason you don't see many aikidoka in MMA / UFC is that it does not pay enough. In many of the dojo I have been to, the practitioners in those dojo are mostly professionals, well into their careers and many of them earn significantly more than they would fighting before being given the opportunity to sign a contract. It just wouldn't be an attractive sum of money.
I love your pictures koyo. I guess what I love about them is that I can never tell what is going on in them without your "caption" text to put it in context. All I see is confrontation and conviction, that picture could lead into almost anything, you could go into kote gaeshe, or you could go into tenchi nage (or irimi nage), or I even see ikkyo (well starts off as ikkyo, then kote gaeshe)... or you could be cut... anything goes. Well that's my opinion. I guess what I'm trying to say is that once you provide the context (such as kote gaeshe) I can see the details that I otherwise would have missed. The angles, the hand position, etc... like they say the devil's in the details. Thanks.
Any number of techniques could be applied there.When teaching I shall demand irrimi BUT any technique would be acceptable rather than demanding a specific technique. I once gave a seminar for judoka's teaching irrimi (entry) and they could use it to make their judo more effective. There was a "russian gentleman" vadim among those attending and he was an expert in sambo and.....MMA. He found the triangular entries most interesting.He executed excellent irrimi nage going to the ground with the attacker then executing a MMA lock on the arm which was identical to a judo lock. ALWAYS far better to crosstrain and find and receive mutual respect between the arts. We trained in the Marine Commando Gym at that time and got vadim an opening for his group and we trained twice a weak in the same room for about a year and became good friends. This makes me think that those who choose to insult other arts are losing a great opportunity to learn.
Another reason you don't perhaps see much aikido in MMA/UFC, is that once aikido is out of the dojo, its form and expression take on an entirely new appearance, look, and at times a feel that takes some getting used to. To the casual observer, it may not even look like the aikido as many have come to practice, or have come to think they know aikido when they see it, or perhaps even after viewing it via the mass ammount of aikido videos out there (good or bad), and then an individual who may not know what they were looking at would have a hard time saying...ahhh, there is aikido.
Glad someone asked this, as I wonder about his as well. Has the art been dumbed down too much? Not sure if this would help or not, but here is many JKD instructor’s view on a similar topic, you can check it out for no charge: <Link removed>
Aikido is taught in the hope that you can control an attacker with the least injury. This is only possible if the aikidoka is very experienced. In a real dangerous fight then atemi (striking) is 90% of aikido. Aikido is a self defence martial art and many of the strikes are not allowed in competition. Similarly most MMA guys shall use disallowed strikes in a real fight.
-- Do we actually have to pay to read/learn about the JKD's instructor's views? IMO If I was connected somehow to Bruce Lee, I would be charging at least $99.95 for access to this info. Or is your link incorrect, and you actually meant to take us to where that info actually is. BTY everything I provide here on MAP (good, bad, and ugly), is free of charge. I do, however, accept donations! You can send your donations here: <link removed>
Anyone esle wish to contribute as to why you don't see many aikidoka in mma? I have a couple of more reasons to add here, but only if anyone has additional info to add that has not already been addressed at this time...................................:hat:
Traditional aikido is NOT a competative art. Many of the atemi are not allowed. Many of the joint locks/strikes are not allowed. None of the ara waza are allowed.
-- Yes, we have already touched on that in the previous 30+ pages of posts...additionally many of the weapons are not allowed either, which was also previously discussed. There are some other factors that contribute to why you would not see many aikidoka in MMA, that we have not yet touched upon. I have a couple three or four in mind, but I wish to allow other MAP'rs an opportunity to contribute here.
For me the answer is pretty obvious. There are too few Aikido practitioners who practice Aikido as a martial art who are interested in competition. In fact i don't think I've ever met anybody of any school of Aikido who's even mentioned entering competition. The only people I've met who've even mentioned it were beginners on their first night. They don't ask about MMA. They ask about internal competitions. Aikido specific competitions. As though it were Karate or some other style where competition is common place. Many of them never come back when they learn there is nothing like that in Aikido. and they would have to enter something like an MMA competition to compete.
A few of O Sensei's students were experts at kendo and judo and top competitors and came to aikido to learn self defence (among other things) KNOWING as any really advanced competitor who has had to fight against the likes of gang members junkies or someone who is armed. All of the rules in competition go out the window..and thankfully all of the competitors I know bin the rules and use principles awareness fitness and BASIC technique in a real fight.
-- Yes, I have also touched on this subject in this thread. Let me know if you would like me to point out where. Additionally, I have touched on some of the other references you make, that I recieved a barrage of degenerating replys from. Also, I can point those out if you like.
-- ohh, ye, I noticed you said that before. Was not able to see that that was directed towards aikiwolfie. In anycase, thanks for reitterating what I have stated previously, inspite of our different approaches. Still, a very fine mountain we climb (as in martial arts being a path up the mountain, so to speak).
There, this seems like a fairly sensible answer to the original question. More or less, there are essentially this group of people who enjoy competing in MMA competitions, and for the most part most of them have never done Aikido. Now, unless you go and ask them why they never studied Aikido before stepping into the octagon I don't think we are going to hit an answer here. There has been a LOT of effort made here by the exact right people who are qualified to answer the poster's question. A lot of it has been sidestepped, circumvented and grossly ignored. And for clarity Izumizu you are not the right person to be answering these questions. As to be honest you have too many words and not enough substance. In the end it is probably far better for the Aikidoka who still take the art seriously to just keep training as they are, think not so much about the goings on in the heads of a small minority of the world's populace who compete in MMA competitions, and train in case we ever need to engage with one. I doubt the OP will bother now trawling through the 30 odd pages here to even look for an answer, I would request a Mod just puts a stop to this thread and save more aggravation for those who have been involved and are banging their heads against an obstinate poster 'brick wall'.
Another reason you would not see many aikidoka in MMA is the fact that from day number one that we step onto the mats, there are always people around us with more experience, better technique, better attitude, and more to learn from them. It is a very humbling experience, and a simple truth that no matter how much you train, how hard you train, how much skill and technique you have, there will always be someone better, faster, meaner, just around the corner. Aikidoka in all probability do not need to compete in order to understand this.
Aikidoka DO need to crosstrain to see if they are being taught properly. I have become tired of teachers in some aikido clubs sending people who had been "too agresive" to my club to find that they were in fact just very fit and wanted to learn effective techniques.
speaking of cross-training.... i'm thinking of starting up doing judo again...one of my first loves...once a week at a local dojo. i'm interested in seeing how aikido principles apply. this place is a serious dojo judo/jujitsu, not sport, real judo. i think that i've learned much more about martial principles in the 1 year i've been doing aikido, as opposed to the 6 years i did hapkido. maybe it was the instructors, or the art, or i'm older, more mature and can see this higher level "principles". but whatever, i'm interested in seeing if i can apply what i've learned in judo. <fingers crossed>
Good luck. I had already studued judo for years when I took up aikido. At that time aikido was very hard because most of the shihan had studied judo. I think you will really enjoy it. regards koyo
