Togakure ryu

[Infesticon #1]

what is it?

[47Ronin]

You tell me.

[Dark Blade]

It's Dr Hatsumi's discipline of Ninjutsu, he's the 34th Grandmaster.

Isn't it?

[Infesticon #1]

Beats me, I just saw that there's a school in my town that practises it and was curious as to whether it was a known art or not.

[Shadow_Lurker]

Togakure Ryu is one of the remaining nine traditions of ninjutsu. I think it's the basics of ninjutsu as well as the most popular. I'm not completely sure about that though. Try typing in Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu in at Google or any search engine, you're bound to get some sites about it.

[Brad Ellin]

Shadow Lurker, you're partially right. It is one of the nine schools that make up the Bujinkan and is one of the few remaining Ninjustu Ryu. Back in the '80s it was the basis of most of the Kihon Happo and Sanshin no Kata being taught in the Bujinkan. However emphasis has shifted away from that into learning all nine schools along side of each other and learning how they fit together. Hatsumi is the 34th Soke (head) of the Togakure and (please don't quote me, I may be mistaken) it is one of, if not the oldest, remianing Ninjutsu Ryu still being taught today. As for legitmacy of the people teaching it, do they belong to the Bujinkan? Not a sure fire way of testing legitimacy, but it is the right track to start with.

[Ice Queen]

Saying it's the oldest is open fo debate. But it is the most popular.

[Brad Ellin]

Didn't say it was, said I thought it might be. But that was the point, to open it up for debate so that we might learn something.
Josh?

[SilentNightfall]

Yep, I'm here. And before I start, because I'm short on time, I wanted to thank you for your PM replies and congratulate you on the promotion, man. 21 years!? Wow... I'm on the bottom of the shodan pole now... Ahem... Moving on...

To say that Togakure Ryu is the oldest of the currently practiced Ninjutsu ryu would be correct. Now, there may be debates about legitimacy and then there may be some ancient Ninjutsu ryu out there unknown to the public, but all that aside, to public knowledge it is the oldest. I am -not- saying there cannot be some Ninja master out there who teaches a much older ryu, however, of all publicly known Ninjutsu ryu, Togakure ryu is certainly the oldest. Now following what Kurohana said, I would suggest finding out if this school you found, Infesticon, is a Bujinkan school. Feel free to post the instructors name here if you can find it. It may help us to figure out whether the place is legit. No dojo teaches Togakure ryu only. If that is what they claim, then they are wrong, however, some Bujinkan dojos advertise Togakure ryu more than the other nine schools because it is the oldest and most known of the remaining Ninjutsu ryu (obviously Koga and Iga have ceased to exist, at least to public knowledge). So yes, make sure the school claims to be Bujinkan, maybe take a class, and then report back. Plenty of us here can help figure out if the place is okay just by a description of a class. Hope all this helps. Ja!

[Kalifallen]

Togakure Ryu, in years, is not the oldest, but is the most popular. Fuma is the oldest but not practiced anymore, then Koga. Togakure Ryu pays more attention to weapons and stealth than Koga does. Because Togakure Ryu developed a lot of the ninja weapons used. Like the shuriken.

As for the Bujinkan. I wouldn't call a dojo using the name Bujinkan in it traditional or "real" ninjutsu. It all depends on what type of ninjutsu you are looking for.

There are three types of dojos.
The ones with on ninjutsu experiance, who only learned from reading about ninjutsu and try to keep the idea of ninjutsu.
The traditional dojos, who have ties with Japan.
And the non-traditional dojos, who have no ties to Japan but have trained in traditional ninjutsu and decided to make there own version.

[SilentNightfall]

Togakure Ryu, when being called the oldest, was obviously being considered such on the premises of those styles still in existence today. As for the Bujinkan name, it is usually good indicator of ties to Japan and a traditional system, though the name has been falsely used, thus I gave my advice of finding the instructor's name and posting it here for those who might know the person and could give feedback. Usually though, any dojo under the Bujinkan name is one that has an instructor that visits Japan to train with Hatsumi-sensei and such. Ones making their own version would not be under the Bujinkan name. Toshindo, for example, is Stephen K. Hayes' version. Just a few minor details I wished to point out.

[Ice Queen]

Ok Kali...question. Most bujinkan dojos (the ones I've visited anyway) are related to JApan, and have senseis that go back 3 times a year. So how is you r comment correct? You don't even train in the form anymore so how why study on something you don't wish to learn anymore?

[Kalifallen]

Ice Queen, your question confused me a little, but I think I understand. Why I wouldn't call Bujinkan "real" or traditional. Now it probably depends on your dojo, but in mine we ONLY studied Taijutsu. If a style of Iga Ninjutsu is going to be "real" or traditional I think it should be complete. I don't call Bujinkan complete because it (my ex-dojo) only studied Taijutsu. There is more than Taijutsu when studying Ninjutsu. And, I think it should express that.
Still, you are right Bujinkan is traditional because it has a lineage. Or, at least getting a lineage since it is not that old. I think Hatsumi started Bujinkan around the '70s or '80s. Not sure. So, sorry if I offened you or any other Bujinkan Martial Artists.

P.S.: I don't study Bujinkan. Haven't studyed it since I got out of it. I study Tew Ryu because it gives a more complete feel of Ninjutsu. And, it doesn't stress on lineage or history or Japan, because it has none of that. Which I like because you have more time to study the art, philosophy, mind, body & spirit, camouflage, stealth, weapons, and the rest.

[SilentNightfall]

Unfortunately, Kali, it seems that you found a dojo which was not complete enough for you. In reality, most dojos do stress weapons, philosophy, etc. The reason many focus on taijutsu and weaponry and not so much on stealth aspects is because it was not what true Ninjutsu was all about. That is a false misconception. I've had the pleasure of learning stealth movement, but realized that a lot of it was simply a drill to enforce good footwork. Seminars are for things like stealth and such that don't matter as much. Mind, body, and spirit are also more of an individual thing that one must do on your own. Through the physical aspects of training your mind and body should become more aware. Why else does Hatsumi-sensei say that he cannot "teach" kuji. It must simply be learned. But granted, if your dojo never taught weaponry or a bit of philosophy, it may have been lagging. As always, to each his own.

[Infesticon #1]

sorry I didn't reply for so long. I tried contacting the instructor back in november.

Recently flyers for the school have been distributed in the library and so on. The teacher's name is Mark Lutman. This is a link to his page I think. http://www.ninjutsu.uk.com/instructors/marklutman.htm

ok?