Just wondering if anyone has come across or trained in Ler Drit techniques. If so, how (specifically) was it different from regular MT techniques?
Hi Nicolo, Yes, I have trained in it a Bit-a Brief foray into it over one weekend (Hardly makes me an expert I know). I also met a couple of people who have trained in it with the Thai Military. Lerd Rit (Great or Maximum power) is essentially all the nastiest techniques from Muay Thai/ Ling Lom, utilised via an Unarmed Combat Mentality. IE Create Forward Motion in Response to an attack. Striking First is better than Second. Striking is better than Blocking and Striking. Striking, More Striking, Keep Striking. There are no punches in Lerd Rit, Open Hand strikes only. All the Standard Elbows, Knees but done for maximum Power etc. Kicking is usually Low and aims for great Destruction, IE No Quarter-aimed at destruction of Joints. Push/Power front kick. Roundhouse Low-Usually aimed at the Knee Joint. Side Kicks and Stamps aimed at breaking the Legs. Most technical drills in Lerd Rit aim to be a 'Kill' in under Four moves. Lots of Neck Torsions etc. Limited Locking and only to facilitate an immobilisation, the Neck being the main source of Twists, Cranks etc. In this respect and many others it has alot in common with the Military Chin Na as taught to the Red Army in China. Genuine teachers of it are rare, I know that there are a couple about the place who claim to teach it, in the States and elsewhere, don't know whether they are genuine or not as it's one of those things that is open to abuse. I believe there were a couple of books published on it years ago, although where you find these I know not. Why-do you have an offer to learn it someplace?
hah not unless I join the Thai military! I wish but I know of no one here. The only "connection" or source if you will I currently have is a Thai friend of my friend who's dad had a military background. But yes, all the parts about maximum damage in the shortest time and strikes using the open hand (destroy the opponent but preserve your hands?) is coming back to me. Some photos I've seen do show ling lum style techniques. It'd be very interesting if I can dig up more info on these military techniques. We've all seen the sport aspect but I'd love to see the street or military counterpart. So since it is stripped down to its most brutal core with added takedowns and low-level destructions, there would be no clinching obviously. The only goal there is to break the suspect's face/ribs as fast as possible?
Great info. I'm gonna do some searces on yahoo to see what I can find. Have any of you got anything off the web on it?
Good luck, so far I've only found small passing references to Lerdrit, nothing terribly in-depth. And oh yeah, lots of links to M. Bison of Street Fighter.
Yes, the open hand strikes are to spare the hands, in case of punch breakages. The Only Clinches are 'if' you happen to find yourself within that situation and not clinching for the sake of Grappling and or Striking. Any Takedowns are intended to do maximum damage by EG Striking the Knees of the standing adversary with the elbows (Just like Chin Na) and then goto a quick kill as you take them down. Ideally Combatative Systems tend to avoid going to the ground, unless they absolutely can't help it. As during a Firefight plus Hand to Hand combat you really don't want to be rolling around on the ground with someone who is trying to kill you-although it may happen, so preparation for all eventualities. Obviously the Distinct Possibility of Bladed weapons as a back up to Firearms, makes Ground Grappling even more dangerous under those circumstances.
makes sense, if you are in a close-quarter situation you really shouldn't be dancing around in the neck clinch anyways, you should get right to the point. Does Lerdrit incorporate the takedowns and locks from Japanese and CHinese arts and others? Because that did sound chin-na-ish from what you described.
The Takedowns in Lerd Rit are all from Ling Lom (which contains many takedowns-Double Leg, Limb Dislocations and Down, Throws, Unbalancings etc). It just so happens that they are very like alot of the Chin Na takedowns-there may well be some 'history' there (?). As far as I'm aware, Lerd Rit in its entirety is from Thai Fighting Arts sources-I can't see any reason to import Non-Thai technical stuff into Thai Military H2H training, as it's all there in the Thai Arts for the using. I certainly can't see any 'foreign' influences, especially now knowing more about Thai Arts in General, than I did 'then', when I had exposure to it (Lerd Rit). As I say with 'Locks' within a Combatative H2H system they tend to be limb breaks as opposed to controls (I know you know this Nicolo-that bit was for anybody else reading, who may not know). So the 'Locks' would tend to be stuff like Reverse Arm Lock (Trap an incoming Cross between the guard/ arms-wedging it at the wrist and elbow in opposite directions to the joint's natural range of movement, to dislocate the arm-then into a Neck torsion etc). I'm still looking out for those Lerd Rit books.
i see i see what you mean. Locks and breaks along the lines like Rama Breaks the Bow and such? Are those books published in Thailand and UK? I'm searching for them too...
Refresh my memory Nic, What's 'Rama Breaks the Bow', is that an elbow strike up under the stretched punching arm, or am I on the wrong track?? names familar but minds gone blank???? The Lerd Rit Books were Published in Thai and had various members of the Thai army smashing things on the Front cover, like Bottles, Bricks, anything breakable etc. Let me know if you find anything. Apparently The Burmese army have a similar system to Lerd Rit based on Burmese Boxing (Bama Lethwei) and Bando.
Whoops, sorry I was thinking of Rama Breaks the Arrow (Prarama Hak Sorn) see http://www.shaolin.ee/pdf/Ch3.pdf on page 34. It's not exactly for straight punches, it's a twisting/breaking khon technique against an elbow but I was just thinking about locks of that nature. In the old hindu stories of Ramayana, he does break Shiva's bow. I must have that confused with this. Yeah lethwei and bando are pretty no-nonsense as well and pretty similar to what the Thais have. I believe there is much controversy surrounding the origins of muay as well?
I get what you mean. Yes, lots of stuff of a similar nature, except that Ideally in a H2H system such as Lerd Rit, you try to Create Forward Motion. IE Pile Into them, blasting away, looking to rob them of their base and off-balance them either from the off, IE 1) you just go for it or 2) In response to an attack-preferably not by blocking and then striking but by using a sort of 'cow-catcher' guard. Or using Salaakhaang (Talk on the Telephone Block) but with Forward Drive, so that your 'block' becomes a weapon of offense by the two colliding forces meeting at the point of your elbow (As seen in Pahuyuth by Panya Kraitus)-to gain an entry on the inside. More of the Lerd Rit stuff was to the outside, IE Negating the adversaries weapons by being able to strike, crank etc him but he not being able to do the same to him, because of factors such as his arm is pressed across his body or you have gotten behind him or some such, I'm sure you know the Muay Thai techniques like this, Parries and Elbows from the outside etc. So position is also important, as ideally you want to get to his side or behind him to break his neck, which is more difficult from the Inside, because of a fairly equal fighting chance for both combatants. Any Defensive technique, even if it is a Limb Break response to a Strike, is secondary in H2H methodology, as you want to take the initiative and kill the other guy ASAP. Lethwei and Muay Thai are basically the same cherry and Bando, in alot of ways is very like Ling Lom-although there is plausibly more discernible 'Chinese' influence in Bando than in Ling Lom. The controversy is, I feel, Political in nature and comes from the delineation of Borders. I mean any dummy can look at Burmese Boxing (Bama Lethwei) and Thai Boxing (Muay Thai) and see that essentially they share a common root, likewise Cambodian boxing. I'm still looking for those Lerd Rit books.
No problemo Adam I see, basically overwhelm the person and "blast" into them. Makes complete sense. Get to the weak side and apply your breaks and/or locks. By Salaakhaang do you mean something like the darting elbow or such where as for example, your opponent attacks with a punch or something and you stick your elbow forward with your hand to your ear (like talking on the phone?) and shoot straight into him? I know branches of our military (CIA, SEALs, etc) for example do incorporate Thai Boxing techniques as part of their H2H but whether it's Lerdrit-ish I'm not certain.
