This is not a flame war intended thread. I just want to know how the general martial arts public feels about San Soo. I've been reading many things about San Soo lately online, and only San Soo people seem to think it's a worth while art for the most part. So, I want to know how everyone feels about San Soo. Post your thoughts, links, articles, research, etc.. EVERYTHING. Yes I am a San Soo guy, but I've also trained extensively in other stuff. I am interesting in reading what everyone has to say. Ryan
Questionable history, not sure how much influence from Japanese system/Kempo (not necessarily a bad thing). But all the San Soo people I've talked to claimed that it is solely a traditional Chinese martial art, but I don't think so. That doesn't mean it isn't an effective or useful martial art, as we're getting into history and heritage here.
I have my own feelings about San Soo right now, I am a bit torn. I am in China and San Soo does not exist here, so I am forced to do internal Chinese arts and TKD right now. I miss doing San Soo though. Also there seems to be two different types of San Soo. The original Frank Woosley/Jimmy Wo stuff and the modern most commnly used stuff seen today. Here is some youtube vids showing the differences... Old San Soo: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv9HmJcR_14"]YouTube - Forms - Kung Fu San Soo, Woolsey Kung Fu and more[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPV-y6omoS8"]YouTube - Old San Soo & Woolsey Kung Fu # 1[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUZdN0tQXuU"]YouTube - Old San Soo & Woolsey Kung Fu # 2[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxXSe_srZfg"]YouTube - Shawnee San Soo - 20: Rant, Part 1[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Le0BUstDMk"]YouTube - Shawnee San Soo - 21: Rant, Part 2[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj_ADGAs_wU"]YouTube - Shawnee San Soo - 2: Risky Step and Block Combination[/ame] http://www.youtube.com/user/shawneesansoo# And the newer more common San Soo... [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yyu5m2sz0B4"]YouTube - Kung Fu San Soo Dave Hopkins Street Fighting Vol.1[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-VFF-alKVU"]YouTube - Kung Fu San Soo Dave Hopkins Street Fighting Vol. 2[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xcd8MIJmLF4"]YouTube - Paul Schroder's El Paso Kung Fu San Soo Demo Aug. 2010[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrRKHI7s9wA"]YouTube - Punch Drill-Sound Drill[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yke8u9o4rfo&feature=related"]YouTube - Salute[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwx8TR_hgk4"]YouTube - Roundhouse Punch[/ame] As you can see here, looks like two different arts... Now we have guys like Bill Hulsey who fall somewhere in between... http://www.youtube.com/user/sansoovlog Interesting to see how different they all are.
Why are you learning TKD in China? Not that TKD is bad or anything but, when there is a wealth of Chinese martial arts, classical and modern San Da combat sports, and also Shuai Jiao (Chinese wrestling) being available? Just curious. Also where in China are you staying? Anyways, hope you have a fun time.
To be honest Kung Fu is not as popular in China as people think. It's much easier to find TKD schools. It's not easy to find all the styles you named, first you need to know people, second you need to see if they teach it within your city. I am in Hebei province ShiJiaZhuang. It's not as easy as people think to learn Kung Fu in China. Also since I am a foreigner here it's hard for me to get around at times. Tai Chi is pretty common though. Most people I've met in China don't do kung fu/know next to nothing about it. I met someone the other day that seems to know a few people, I'll see where it takes me. Also TKD is super common in China and everywhere.
The original stuff in terms of movement look much more "Chinese." But still could be an amalgamation of various styles that Jimmy Woo learned, I think. The newer stuff just looks like Kempo rehashed.
Found some people that can get me started on some gung fu. Excited to say the least. One of the schools here teach Sanda.
San Soo Is it a joke you ask? That is a good question young man. No, it is not a joke. The system is of course complex in it's origins. What was once a unique fighting system stemming from the Quan Yin Monastery in Southern China, (very similar to the Northern Shaolin style & technically a sister school of the Shaolin Monastery), has yes been commercialized for cash purposes here in the U.S. It is old school Kung Fu! From an ancient monastery at that. But that does not make a martial art. What maks San Soo unique, is that the animal styles, the energy techniques, tai chi, qigong, were all apart of the original fighting system taught there, but the old ledgers and training manuals were stolen from the monastery by one of the monks. He passed the system down, and eventually the training manuals as well. Kind of a father to son type of thing! several generations later...Jimmy Woo came along...learned very, very much again, due to turmoil, moved to the us...for 20 years, he tought "Karate"...then he eventually polished his roots & art, and coined the name "San Soo". But still had to make it marketable to the public. It wasnt until his later years, that he kind of realized he'd been teaching almost 2 seperate systems...One system by his means, but from a student's perspective, it would seem very different. In truth, San Soo, is the old school kung fu fighting system that it has always been. It is the raw application and technique of training your body to act as a human fighting system. It is pure and clean by practice...and by practice of any skill, you will refine it, removing the impurities. Part of the San Soo problem of today is that there is no set way to go about teaching it...other than the practice of the forms, which there are many...but some schools don't even teach them. The other prblem with San Soo today is that everyone thinks of San Soo like what you see in the movies about Chinese monks. San Soo is the free flowing essence of fighting. Yes it is it's own style and it is brutal! But it is not practiced here in the states as it was back in China a hundred years ago...which consisted of brutal training! Here we are more easy going and only get the watered down version...the schools here all teach various elements of San Soo. Bill Hulsey, is a rather oddball of an individual, if you watch him, he is very sloppy, which has become his style...and it is effective to an extent. He bends a lot, when he should descend, lower his base and root to the ground. But he did not learn or practice that. Anyhow, it is difficult to practice San Soo if you are not sure of what San Soo is...Practice for a while until you find out what you want from it. Then decide if it is a joke or not.
I saw a few videos of it and personally, it looks like any other kung fu and they make claims like any other as well, words like "brutal" "self defense" yada yada but just from looking at the videos alone, a couple of the locks looks exactly like Kuk Sool Won move for move. I then saw a hip throw where the girl turns her back completly against a larger man and flips him, I thought she would be dead in real life. It's your typical kung fu, no better, or worse than any other in my opinion. I say check it out yourself and go for what keeps your attention because thats what matters. Kung fu is better than nothing at all. And who cares about heritage, history and all that nonesense haha. I'd rather take a new art accustomed to the 21st century than one that worked 500 years ago. If the class is fun, go for it.
Sanda, or Sanshou, isnt a style in its own entirety (sp). Sanda is the sparring or competition fighting side to Kungfu. I did White Crane and Tiger Kungfu for 4 yrs (now doing Wing Chun and Escrima). We would learn traditional Kungfu during the class and then the sparring hour would be training on Sanda, which is effectivelty not desimilar to kick boxing. Here is wiki's take on it.....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanshou If all you want to learn is a great system on punching and kicking and some throwing this is fantastic, but if you want somethig a little more intricate, deep and involved like Kungfu, then this may dissapoint. Have a go and see what you think!
So so true. Martial arts is what YOU make it. Use what you are taught and make it your own. Has always worked for me. The schools I have trained in constantly change bits of the system to accomodate our society today.
LOL @ "the Quan Yin Monastery in Southern China" Guan Yin is a Goddess of Mercy, there are/were tons of temples that worshipped her all over asia. Not just one. San Soo looks like Kenpo to me...
Sanda or Sanshou is a much more effective looking ruleset and training method. It's basically the chinese' answer to muay thai. Although they tend not to fair up well whenever they meet, the rulesets ARE similar and there are plenty of sanda/sanshou guys who make the switch with a fair degree of success.
I am in north China right now. No one has seemed to hear of it. I am going to travel more south to do some more research.
Never heard of it taught anywhere in Asia. Perhaps Tim Cartmell could steer you somewhere,it was his original study. Google him up and contact. It's basically derived from Fu Hok Hung and Choy Lay Fut. Southern systems.
