Neos and their issues

I'm an independent, indie, neo whatever coin phrase you want to use.

I however have issues with what many of the schools do that remove any form of validity we have to offer.

However, I'd like to ask about them and see if the error has basis.
1st off I am bothered intensly by accepting societies, sokeship councils and so on. No one should accept your rank, but your teacher. Period. My shiho nage is not yours, they may be in the same route or fashion but taken differently so how are you to rank me. This I just don't like and I don't see there being any reason for it, but there are so many of them. No purpose.

A Kai is fine I see it, getting together for the purpose of sharing and training nothing more. That's what the arts is about


Now my questions

I see the term O'Sensei being bantered about. Now to my knowledge there is 1 O'Sensei, that being Ueshiba. However my question, is the usage of the term erroneous or does it have a logical placement being a sensei who has gone before, that again not making sense to me as sensei itself means one who has gone before.

Osu, oss, ous. Also used a great deal. Okinawan, not mainland. What is the proper connotation of this term even in the correct area or art and is there any link to Ninjutsu with it. I don't believe there is, but willing to be corrected.

I just want to be educated by those who know the terms properly. I have had problems with them being used for years. I respect a great deal of the practitioners using them however but I hold this opinion.

 

Neos and their issues...

Well, as you know, Neo comes to the realization that what he always believed was "reality" was, instead, a fabrication meant to harness human beings' usefulness by making them believe they were partaking of worthwhile activities. Once Neo "wakes up", he takes a stand for what he believes is right but is relentlessly pursued by Agent Smith - a power hungry creation of the Matrix that ends up turning on the Matrix.

I suppose if I were a "Neo" I'd have issues too.

 

Bujingodai said - "Osu, oss, ous. Also used a great deal. Okinawan, not mainland. What is the proper connotation of this term even in the correct area or art and is there any link to Ninjutsu with it. I don't believe there is, but willing to be corrected."

Try reading some of Dave Lowry's work. Especially "In The Dojo", chapter nine, 'Martial Language.'

 

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

 

Thank you Manga.

Funny how 50% of this thread became useless. I'd appreciate the fact that I tried to start an actual conversation and question that it was pinned down to yet another independent thing. If I was a neo I'd have an issue.

The actual joke referring to the movie was funny, then it went to that and subsequent reaction.


OK so even though it's my question and I was trying to make something to chat about I'll be a mod. If there is nothing that can be productively said to answer the OP then it will be deleted.

 

Ok, ok... I just saw the thread title and your signature and thought about Agent Smith and Neo and how much of a pain that was. Attempt at humor, not so funny. My apologies. :hat:

 

I do think it's unfortunate that some people go and try to go and start their own councils and clubs to allegedly lend them more credibility. If they're teaching good stuff and they're serious about what they do, that should stand on it's own. Some people here may lawnmower the idea of what's "good" and what isn't but I think that one has been done before.

 

Oh, wow! Jesus Christ? Thanks for introducing him to the Ninjutsu forum, Simon! We could use some help around here! :evil:

 

AFAIK, the "O'Sensei" thing was because there were oftentimes two Ueshiba Sensei's on the floor on any given day at the dojo: Morihei (who was then referred to as Oh-Sensei, "great teacher"), and his son Kisshomaru (who was then referred to as Waka-Sensei, "younger teacher"). I'm not under the impression that it's a title in and of itself.

I'll have to look up the source for this, though; I cannot currently verify its accuracy.

Not quite. It's of mainland origin, just most often popularized among karateka (and sometimes by extension judoka) and the demographics which originally popularized those sports. (We actually have a few threads on the use of Ossu here on MAP.) No, there's no association with ninjutsu or any of the Takamatsu-den arts. In the very rare cases that I ever actually hear a Ninpo'er say "ossu" at anyone, it's most likely because he/she had originally switched from another art that used "osu" or else was trying to imitate the instructional group methods most common among the arts among which "ossu" is popular.

Female karateka/judoka, of course, say Mesu instead of Osu.

 

WTF is a "neo-ninja."

 

Thank you Bronze for your input.

A neo is a name given by mainstream orgs to an independent.

Fu I knew you were just being funny I just wanted to make sure that the thread didn't go in that direction.

 

Bujingodai said - "A neo is a name given by mainstream orgs to an independent."

Hmm, I'd disagree actually.

A "neo" is someone who has in effect taken some martial arts training, added some stuff and has basically created what they feel to be "ninjutsu in spirit." An example would be Choson Ninja.

An "independent" or "indy" would be someone who has been part of one of the mainstream organisations and who, for a variety of reasons, has broken away to pursue an independent path. At the core their roots are in the mainstream organisations but they are in effect now heading away in a different direction to that of the mainstream to some degree. An example might be yourself.

Of course this is just my personal thinking on those terms, others might disagree

 

I am pretty fond of that description. I need to change my headline then LOL.

 

Oh there's a purpose. It lends credibility to the group. What people need to ask themselves is that if this group were credible in the first place, why would they need to craft "World Sokeship Councils", and the like?

 

I personally think it takes away from their cred, it just looks silly IMO. I don't want a rank I never earned. I have been given them over the years, and I have them in a tube at home. I display 2 ranks, and I earned both of them.

 

Sure, to you and me, but for the average person it all sounds very official.

 

I reckon that for many people (not just the ninja inclined lot) that anytime you take something and you wrap it up in any amount of eastern mysticism... even down to something simplistic as terms... soke, sensei... etc. etc. it becomes all that more appealing. Most people aren't immune to it as they like.... it was in a sense sold to us wholesale while growing up. The mystique goes a long way deep in the mind to keep people interested. It's not always a bad thing... but it can be taken to a silly level.

If things like The Sokeship Council were given similar or equivalent western names I reckon many people would lose a bit of their enthusiasm just by the fact that all of a sudden it's not nearly as exotic. So vice governor or secretary to the committee all off a sudden don't resonate nearly as much as borrowed terms for the Japanese.

Anywho.