LaCanne - The Vigny method.

Discussion in 'Weapons' started by StevieB8363, Jan 2, 2011.

  1. StevieB8363

    StevieB8363 Valued Member

    Since I've seen almost no mention of LaCanne on this forum I've decided to post this thread on the older, defensive style of LaCanne which I have been studying for about 6 years now.

    Firstly I wish to give an overview of the method, and the reasoning behind it, followed by more detailed (and hopefully illustrated) descriptions of the individual techniques.

    Introduction: As stated, I learn the Vigney method: a self-defence system that was designed to defend the user and cause serious injury to the opponent. It is not the points-based style more commonly practiced today.
    The system was designed for use with a walking stick, (an umbrella would do in a pinch), preferably one of light to medium weight, flexible enough to absorb impact, and ideally, with a small **** at the end. The ****, or tip of the sick is used to deliver the impact. The strikes of LaCanne do not rely on the brute strength of the practitioner: the movement of the wrist and the snapping motion of the arm send the developed power down the length of the stick in similar fashion to a whip, with the velocity of the tip being the determining factor in the force of the strike.

    To that end, the major strikes of LaCanne are all delivered in a complete circle, with the tip of the weapon gaining speed throughout. This is made possible by use of the high guard. The high guard and circular strikes are the most distinctive features of this method, making it notably different from most weapon systems.

    Blocking is primarily done through a simple "box system" with high and low horizontal blocks, and left/right vertical blocks, though more advanced practitioners can use deflections or counter strikes as a means of defense. The "box system" is intended to be easily taught, and simple to use.

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M25Vef_7ojo]This video clip[/ame] shows the Vigny method being used in sparring (starts 20 seconds in). The clip comes from the Germeiner Acadamy of Combative Arts, which is where my instructor received his LaCanne training.
     
  2. ROBER-E

    ROBER-E Valued Member

    I have never heard of this art but it looks really cool,are there disarms involved in lacanne or is it mostly focused on strikes and blocks?
     
  3. StevieB8363

    StevieB8363 Valued Member

    The High Guard

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    The two above pictures show the frontal and side view of the high guard position. All pictures in this post are taken from an article by Kirk Lawson.

    The hand is held back for safety, the stick angled downward and diagonally. The non-weapon hand is held in a fist, and used to guard the side of the head, though this is a backup only, in cast you didn't see something coming.

    Edit: I stupidly neglected to mention the correct grip. The thumb should be wrapped around the stick, not placed along its length. Since the power is developed by a rolling action of the wrist, the thumb adds neither power nor stability when aligned with the stick, as the direction of force is almost at right angles to an extended thumb. A weak grip can easily result in the stick being knocked from the hand. And with due respect to Mr Lawson, I was taught to hold the stick one fist length from the end, rather than the "sword grip" shown in some of these pictures. The slight change in balance adds speed to the movements, and the extended butt-end of the stick is occasionally employed for close-quarter strikes.

    The traditional Vigny block against overhead blows is this:

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    As Lawson points out in his article, the "St George's block" does expose the hand somewhat, hence the variation by one of Vign'y students, H.G. Lang, who taught this method to Indian police. There is however a valid reason for employing the "St George's block" against a practitioner of LaCanne, which will be evident when I discuss the strikes.

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    These last two show the left and right side guards.
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    Not illustrated is the lower block against an up-swinging weapon: the stick is held horizontally, at waist height, forward of the body.

    Though apparently strange, the high guard makes for a simple blocking system, as well as an excellent position from which to execute the circular strikes of LaCanne. While at first glance it seems to leave the legs exposed, all is not as it appears. Firstly, the standard response to a leg attack is to "pass the guard" backward, secondly, striking at the legs of someone using the high guard becomes less attractive when you consider the "stick of Damocles" that is being held above you. Going for a low shot leaves your head dangerously exposed.

    Rober-E: Mainly strikes and blocks, "disarms" are performed primarily by striking your opponent's hand, leaving him not only disarmed, but crippled.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2011
  4. StevieB8363

    StevieB8363 Valued Member

    Overhead strike

    The overhead strike of the Vigny system is a peculiar one. The stick is swung downward and to the side of the body, performing a complete circle. The wrist provides most of the power, with a small elbow movement. As the stick is swung overhead for the final part of the strike, the wrist is rolled over so that the knuckles face upward. The hand is held high while the stick swings at a downward angle to strike the head. Photos again from Kirk Lawson. Note: I stumbled across Lawson's articles while looking for illustrations: the words here are my own. If Mr Lawson objects in any way to my using his pictures this thread will be deleted, or other images used.

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    Note that the free hand has been swung downward and backward to add power to the strike: the use of the non-attacking hand is common to both LaCanne and Savate, though the movements themselves differ. The striker has turned side-on to the target, stretching forward and rising on the rear toe.

    This strike is intended to reach over the guard of an opponent, hence the use of the "St George's block", which is more effective against this angle of attack than Lang's variation. Lang's deflection is more effective against a heavy weapon, which is unlikely to be used in the manner shown above.

    Vigny's overhead strike is also difficult for the opponent to grab, because he/she is not presented with the length of the stick, only the tip. Grab that only if you have no further use for your fingers.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2011
  5. StevieB8363

    StevieB8363 Valued Member

    Reverse Face Cut/Backhand Strike

    Not the next logical move in the sequence of cuts, but I'm having trouble finding transitional pictures to show the movements.

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    This drawing shows the line taken by the tip of the stick when performing the backhand strike. The hand is first drawn across the body, with the stick pointing forward as shown.The wrist then rotates the stick around in a circle, while the arm is straightened. Initially, the tip and hand move in opposite directions, but when the tip reaches the rear of the arc it is "sling shotted" forward by both the wrist rotation and the snapping motion of the arm. The reverse cut can be performed directly from the high guard, simply by rolling the wrist and extending the arm, but I have found that method to be both slower and weaker than the above. While the initial set-up motion may seem to be a time-waster, the strike that follows accelerates rapidly. Overall, I don't believe it takes any more time than cutting directly from the high-guard, and the increased speed and power of the strike make it worth the effort. Additionally, this movement is very hard read if you aren't familiar with it. The free hand can be swung laterally to the rear if extra power is desired.

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    Last edited: Jan 3, 2011
  6. illumin7

    illumin7 Valued Member

    Am I right in thinking that there are similarities to this and the Irish stick martial art Bataireacht?
     
  7. StevieB8363

    StevieB8363 Valued Member

    I've seen very little of Irish stickfighting, and it didn't look like this! Can you post a link?
     
  8. illumin7

    illumin7 Valued Member

    http://johnwhurley.com/

    http://fighter.com/lexicon_item.php?id=237

    http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Bataireacht


    I came across it on of my travels to be honest I don't know much about it, and have only seen a brief demonstration, plus Im interested in MA's from different places not just the usual ones ie: China or Japan.

    I would like to get some stick fighting arts under my belt at some point but I'm looking for ones native to the african continent.

    That being said I saw this thread and it piqued my ineterest so here I am oh and welcome to MAP.

    Plus the stick you are weilding in your pictures looks like a shillelagh.
     
  9. StevieB8363

    StevieB8363 Valued Member

    Firstly: those pictures aren't mine, they come from Kirk Lawson's article, as i have both mentioned and linked.

    Second: none of the links you supplied actually gave any demonstration of the techniques of Irish stick-fighting, so I can't answer your question.

    Third: yes, the pictured stick does look like a shillelagh, but it is still a good demonstration of the guard position. Any stick between 2-3 feet long will work with the Vigny system provided it is light enough to be wielded swiftly with one hand. A heavy stick will of course deliver more powerful blows, but speed and accuracy are the primary aims of the system.
     
  10. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    I've seen the commercial videos by the Germeiner Academy. La Canne Vigny is some serious stuff. It's on my list of "must learns" for MA. Greg Germeiner is also an accomplished Savateur, IIRC.

    Best regards,

    -Mark
     
  11. StevieB8363

    StevieB8363 Valued Member

    Face Cut/Forehand Strike

    Since I'm having trouble finding good pictures, I'll describe each of the techniques first and illustrate then later if I can.

    EDIT:I've taken a few pics in my back yard. The handled stick used here is not the preferred weapon, but owing to a recent move i couldn't find my City Stick.

    The "face cut" or forehand strike is probably the easiest to learn, and along with the reverse cut is one of the "power strikes" of LaCanne.

    From the high guard, simply roll the wrist so that the stick circles back over the left shoulder (For a right-handed practitioner), while snapping the arm out forward. The front foot steps forward, the hips twist to the left and the free hand is swung laterally to the rear, aiding balance and power as you lean/lunge forward. The striking hand is palm-up, knuckles leading as the stick swings around horizontally. At the moment of impact the body should be at right angles to the target.

    Once you develop a smooth motion, it's easy to make a light rattan cane "hum" as you swing it through the air.

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    Last edited: Jan 3, 2011
  12. StevieB8363

    StevieB8363 Valued Member

    Underhand Strike/Uppercut

    The underhand strike can be performed two ways: either directly from the high guard or from a transitional guard as a counter to a face cut.

    In the first method, the stick is swung in a vertical arc, the arm bending at the elbow as the stick swings to the rear and past the left side of the body. The arm is then straightened as the stick circles forward, as with the overhead strike the free hand swings downward and to the rear, and the body turns side-on to the target. The tip circles up to strike under the chin.

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    In the second method, in response to a face cut the stick hand is brought down to chest level, the stick pivoting to vertical as the body turns to the left. This is a temporary guard position that blocks the face cut before being circled around to perform the underhand strike as described above.

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    Either method can be used with a bending of the knees and lean from the waist so that the strike is brought down to groin level.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2011
  13. StevieB8363

    StevieB8363 Valued Member

    Thrust

    From the high guard position, a thrust to the face is easily executed as shown in the following pictures. (Again from Kirk Lawson.)

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    There is little arm movement: power comes from the movement of the body.

    I personally find this thrust to be somewhat hard on the shoulder, and a little weak. I prefer to drop my hand down to shoulder level so that the stick thrusts horizontally and at a slight inward angle. Trying this variation against a fence yielded more impact with less shoulder strain.

    The pictured thrust can also be used defensively, the front foot being brought back while the body leans forward: this is usually done as a counter to a leg shot.
     
  14. StevieB8363

    StevieB8363 Valued Member

    Flip

    Not a powerful strike, the flip employs deceptive movement and an odd angle of attack to reach around an opponent's guard.

    From high guard the stick is swung in a downward circle in front of the practitioner, from his/her left to right, while stepping forward and to the right at a 45 degree angle. As the tip swings up and around, it performs a horizontal strike to the target, but with the stick at pointing in toward the target. It is essentially a horizontal version of the overhead strike, employing the same angled-approach to reach around a defending weapon. Usually used as part of a combination, not as an opening move.

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    Last edited: Jan 3, 2011
  15. StevieB8363

    StevieB8363 Valued Member

    Flick

    Same angle of attack, from the opposite side. Again the 45 degree step, this time while extending the stick horizontally to the left side. The wrist is rolled to flick the tip of the stick toward the target.

    More powerful than it looks, and very disconcerting for those unfamiliar with it. Like the flip, it is usually part of a combination.

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  16. StevieB8363

    StevieB8363 Valued Member

    Clearing maneuver

    The "clearing maneuver" is exactly that: a technique for clearing space around you. The sick is swung horizontally side to side, at either hand or face level. Can be performed stepping forward or backward.

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  17. StevieB8363

    StevieB8363 Valued Member

    Economy of movement.

    Apart from requiring a strong and supple wrist, LaCanne is not highly demanding on the practitioner (the sports LaCanne with its jumps and spins is another matter). The stick is not dragged or forced, rather it is "whipped", and by bouncing the stick off the target you can return to guard, or immediately strike from the opposite direction. In the "transitional moves" employed with the underhand strike and backhand, the stick is allowed to pivot around its own center of gravity so that the hand essentially moves itself only, the stick swinging into position with minimal effort. In short, the stick does the work, not the practitioner. Fast stick movement and unexpected angles are what makes the system effective, together with a simple blocking method.

    There are or course more advanced techniques and combinations, the above have been an outline of the basic strikes and principles. Students of historical swordfighting will no doubt recognise the high guard and some of the strikes: Vigny adopted some techniques and modified others to allow for the fact that he was using a stick, not a sword. I hope to write more later on the two-handed techniques (usually used with a heavier stick), for now I hope this suffices as an introduction to a little-known but interesting and effective style.
     
  18. StevieB8363

    StevieB8363 Valued Member

    Video Clips

    Thanks to mum and her digital camera, here's few clips of me performing the basic moves.

    1: The overhead strike.

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    2: The underhand strike.

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    3: The underhand strike with transitional guard.

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    4: The forehand cut.

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    5: Backhand cut from high guard.

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    Last edited: Jan 3, 2011
  19. StevieB8363

    StevieB8363 Valued Member

    More Clips

    6: Backhand cut (chambered).

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    7: Flip.

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    8: Flick.

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    9: Clearing.

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    10: Random combinations.

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  20. illumin7

    illumin7 Valued Member

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