Bujinkan documentary of Anthony Netzler plus MMA fight

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Dead_pool, Sep 18, 2010.

  1. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Interesting Bujinkan documentary of Anthony Netzler

    part one:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfKeh-qmYBU"]YouTube - Ninpo Documentary Netzler[/ame]


    plus two of his MMA fights

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT5ez6EG2GI"]YouTube - Anthony Netzler vs. Jim York[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY364hMGUW0&feature=related"]YouTube - NETZLER MANNY FURY GUAM[/ame]
     
  2. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Well, you can definitely say that Anthony really knows how to take a punch... Right on the chin(or should I say temple). I want to say he should stick to his day job, but his acting wasn't that impressive either. Bujinkaners should stay out of MMA. The stuff they showed with Jason Chambers was bad enough. Nagato Shihan used to do judo and kickboxing fights right, now that's some footage I would like to see.
     
  3. seattletcj

    seattletcj Valued Member

    Its amazing that someone could disparage Mr Netzler. The guy has got bigger balls then most, to step into the cage.
    He should be applauded.
    Hes got 8 wins, 8 losses. Which isnt fantastic, but its good.

    As far as Nagato's past experience....its better that we dont have the footage.
    It might not be as good as people assume it to be. Better to keep it a fantasy, and just continue daydreaming of how awesome it must have been. :rolleyes:
     
  4. seattletcj

    seattletcj Valued Member

    Wondering why there are tags referencing Ishizuka in this thread ?
     
  5. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Oh, in Seattle what do they say if everytime a guy gets hit he falls down? If anything his performances that were posted here disparage the art. I mean he was announced as a 10th Dan. Wouldn't you expect a better performance? Reminded me of the time another actor/10th degree black belt, Ron van Clief fought in the UFC. Nobody is quesitoning his cajones, just his fighting ability. A 8 and 8 record is good? Clearly you prefer fantasy to reality but I would ask Dana White about that one if I was you.
     
  6. Dizzyj

    Dizzyj Valued Member

    Dana White's UFC, and other top promotions, have signed the best of the best in the business. Yes, inevitably they all have 20-4 records or similar, that's why they're at the top. But for every 20-4, there is a 4-20, or at least a hell of a lot of people who quit after getting 0-2. In that light, staying around for sixteen fights and managing to break even is still quite an accomplishment!
     
  7. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

     
  8. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    By definition, he's won about as many as he lost. Matchmaking aside, that in and of itself says he's about as good as any other fighter you're likely to find passing through. It's not legendary or terribly impressive, but he's definitely keeping up among fighters. Would you talk down on most of the other average ranked fighters if they weren't Bujinkan guys?
     
  9. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    He's keeping up with other fighters? Maybe you guys have different criteria for what makes a good fighter but neither the posted videos of his fights nor his average are compelling to me. Maybe you guys wouldn't be so quick to praise a fighter with that kind of performance history if he wasn't a Bujinkan guy. In fact, you wouldn't have even heard of them, since fights from guys like that don't generally make the broadcasts. Nothing to cry about, it's just the truth.

    Again, there's no doubt he's brave for putting himself out there, but that in and of itself isn't anything to wet your pants about.

    At least in the fights fusen posted, he did not show a corresponding ability to his 10 dan of rank. I know I am assuming, but I think the videos were posted to clear up a misconception that many people have that nobody in the Bujinkan ever competes, moreso than to showcase Anthony Netzler's great fighting prowess.
     
  10. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    I think you've got this idea that people are calling him especially good or that he redeems the faults of the Bujinkan as a whole. That's not the case.

    Dude posted a video, a couple people said he's okay, and his record reflects that. You're the only one saying much of anything either way about his ability. I ask again, do you normally talk like that about people with even records?


    And by the way, if I put any stock in Bujinkan ranks with regards to ability, I'd say he should be ranked lower from what I've seen, but I think that's old news, right?
     
  11. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Ratty,
    I usually don't spend much time thinking about average fighters as they don't really interest me. Some people are impressed with an even record, which is their right. Everyone knows what Sun Tzu says about the issue.

    I was mentioning things I saw in the posted fights, and his demonstrated ability versus his publicized rank. He did not fight like a master of taijutsu, which is what most people(who of course don't know the intricacies of rank in the Booj) would expect from a 10 dan in a martial art. It seems that his record is being defended because he is in the Bujinkan.
     
  12. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    I think he's mostly being defended because somebody's dogging a guy for an average record in MMA.
    We all know the ranking in the Bujinkan isn't worth anything when it comes to ability. Whether that's because it's not about that or because it's just done horribly is for another discussion.

    If your original point was "He sucks for a 10th dan", then maybe you should have mentioned his rank or how his ability relates to it in the original post. As it is, it's just "He might as well not even fight. He sucks at acting too. Booj guys should just stay out of the pool."
    Even if there wasn't an apparent agenda, that makes you sound like a huge douche. The fact that you only do it when it comes to the Bujinkan makes you sound like a hypocrite too. It just looks like backpedaling at this point. Maybe that's not how you meant it, but you've got no room to accuse people of defending him "Just because he's buj" after the way you've posted in this thread.
     
  13. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    Just getting in there counts for so much in my eyes. Doing it with a 50% chance of loosing makes little difference
     
  14. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Okay ratty,

    Sorry I got your panties in a bunch. I was tardy in not mentioning the rank thing until my second post. Problem is, the bujinkan doesn't prepare people for competition fighting, as many examples attest. If you disagree, please explain. I did mention one person who is a known competitor whose fights could potentially be used as a better example for Bujinkan fighters. If you aren't prepared for the ring, entering it doesn't seem like a wise choice.

    Whatever the case, the point is that the posted fights were unimpressive. His acting is also bad. He's in the booj. Nobody is dogging him for trying but an A for effort is just that. I know your sentimental but you are jumping to conclusions just because I tend to ignore average fighters, whether bujinkan or otherwise. So do you defend every average fighter you see, blaming his lack of success on the ref, the match maker, or a loose shoestring?
     
  15. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    The Bujinkan as generally presented doesn't prepare you for a fight, but obviously there people among them who are prepared. Unless you're saying that the majority of MMA fighters (that is, those with average records) are unprepared to fight.



    The thing is, most people don't post about average fighters or fights. You're the only one who went out of his way to comment about his performance. Everything since then has been people calling you on talking trash about this guy who you claim doesn't interest you. I don't defend every average fighter I see, but that's because I don't usually have occasion to. If someone started talking down on an average BJJ or Savate guy, I'd do the same thing. I get the impression you think I'm defending him because I'm a Bujinkan guy and I have a vested interest in the face of the style. I'm not. I'm a sambist and submission grappler.
    I'm defending him because you're talking trash about a more or less average fighter for no other reason than his style.
     
  16. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    I am saying that the Bujinkan in general doesn't prepare you to compete in MMA. That's not dogging the art, it's just a fact. This however, does not mean that it isn't a good martial art. Priorities/training/mindest, etc. are different that's all. But people who aren't trained for competition shouldn't compete. Just stepping into the ring shouldn't be the criteria that fighter's are judged on, it should be what they do inside said ring.

    I already mentioned that most average fighters aren't talked about(or even known except to their friends and family) above, which is why I wondered about people jumping up and down about his even record.

    MMA is about winning, not about losing or drawing. Ask any fighter out there would he be proud to have a 50-50 record. How are mentioning his faults as a fighter talking trash? Did you actually watch the fights posted? If so, where do you disagree with what I said about his fights?
     
  17. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    Oh of course, it's not really designed for that, I agree. That doesn't mean he shouldn't compete, however. If someone wants to see how well he does against trained fighters, MMA is the way to do it. There's a long history of that in most martial arts in one way or another.

    I know, and that's kinda the point. None has really said much positive about his record. Most everyone has said it's okay. People are defending him because you came into the thread dogging him for his average record. It wasn't in response to any praise or claims, you just came on and said he sucks so much he might as well just quit.

    You didn't actually mention any faults, you just said he's no good. There was no critique or discussion on what he's doing, just disdain. We all agree that he's nothing too special. That's cool. Noone said he was. But saying someone who got out there and did as well as anyone else you're likely to meet sucks for no apparent reason makes you look like a dick, and people are going to call you on it.

    Also, I find most fighters will tell you MMA is about fighting, not winning. You want to win, but most fighters will tell you they prefer a good fight to a mismatched win.
     
  18. benkyoka

    benkyoka one million times

    Still wondering why we have tags about 'Ishizuka and the K-Klub' (great name for a band, btw), when the subject matter, and the people involved with the thread have nothing to do with either.
     
  19. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    Props to him for getting in the ring to duke it out. Not the best I've seen, but not the worst either. I couldn't really tell if he was using anything from the Bujinkan, it just looked like the usual stuff to me, but then again I have no experience with the Bujinkan so I can't say. Still, 8-8 is still a 50% win ratio, which isn't bad at all.

    They said the same about Shotokan guys too, until Lyoto Machida showed up. As far as records, some guys just plain like to fight, bottom line.
     
  20. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Crap, lost the post I was writing last night. Anyway, I know a lot of fighters and they wouldn't just get in the ring on a whim or to prove something. More than that, never without the proper training. Stepping in the ring takes balls, but so does being a father or any other variety of things. You don't deserve respect for that unless somebody is forcing one to do it against your will.

    Having a glass chin to me is a fault in MMA but in addition, he doesn't keep his guard up and was pretty much muscling his armbar (instead of using his body-not good Takagi Yoshin Ryu) which he finally got in the second fight. I thought I had written more about his flaws but looking back I guess it didn't post. Netzler didn't even use the basic taisabaki that you learn as a mukyu, which would've helped him in avoiding some of those hits.

    Clearly though the Bujinkan doesn't prepare one for competition so those who enter it would definitely need to find someone to train them for it. Supposedly Sean Askew had some Shooto fights but I have never seen any footage. Even Lyoto Machida clearly modified what he learned in Shotokan, and he had been studying it in Brazil since age 3. Very different story.

    Sports are definitley about winning, and of course how you play the game. Naturally, most fighters want a good match up but that is common sense. An even record in sports means that you are doing as many things wrong as right, any coach with that kind of record would be looking for a new job before long. There's nothing wrong with wanting to compete, and a lot of people like fighting. But if they aren't good at it, they should find something else to do.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2010

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