The Mysterious Taiji Symbols at Expo 2010

The Mysterious Taiji Symbols at Expo 2010




Bright-colored mysterious Taiji symbols and Bagua (eight trigrams) looked-a-like symbol on the facade of a pavilion at Expo 2010 Shanghai China. Taiji and Bagua are usually the symbols of East Asia culture, however, this is not China pavilion nor Korea pavilion.







It was quite amazed to find out that this is the Ukraine pavilion, the following is the description of Ukraine pavilion in the official website of Expo 2010:

There is no coincidence as the Taiji symbols between Ukraine and China are virtually the same. What are the links between ancient Ukraine and ancient China?

 

More about Taiji Symbols of Ukraine Pavilion at Expo 2010




The Ukraine Expo 2010 official website has the following descriptions to those mysterious Taiji symbols at their pavilion:

I have done some searching on the internet, here are some interesting findings:

1. Swedish archaeologist, Johan Gunnar Andersson (1874 – 1960), has come to a conclusion that the pottery of China came from the west, after comparing the Yangshao, Anau and Tripilja culture.
2. Rene Grousset (1885 – 1952), a French historian, has also explored the possibilities of China pottery having Siberia and Ukraine origin.

Although the above theories have been challenged and debated over the years, it seems to me that there was an connection between those ancient cultures. In this information flooded era, crushing and blending of global cultures are inevitable, does it really matter the Taiji symbol is from the west or east? Furthermore, sharing of civilization, wisdom and culture had been the trend of all mankind since ancient time.

 

Thanks for sharing. On another thread, a discussion upon the Yin Yang origin had surfaced.

It was discussed, that the symbol, appeared on ancient Roman shields.

I am trying to find the link to that thread and hope whoever particpated in that one on this part, would join us here.

 

There is no coincidence as the Taiji symbols between Ukraine and China are virtually the same. What are the links between ancient Ukraine and ancient China?
__________________
XingyiMax

This is a very interesting thread...could there be a connection between the two because of the Silk Route. I am looking up some things maybe there is more information out there. Maybe some culture was shared.

 

The thread where Yin Yang & Symbol Discussion was mentioned;
http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94407&highlight=roman+shield&page=5


Post #60

Post #62

Post #63

Post # 64

A few posts from #65 through #91 are discussing symbols.

 

Nice thread! Good to see this part of MAP get some traffic.

Wouldn't surprise me in the least if the symbols were developed independently. There are many cases of symbols being developed simultaneously (the swastika for one). There is also the fact that the Chinese have been traders since day one... so you name it... they got there and sold some people something. Here in SE Asia it's commonly known that no matter where you go at some point Chinese traders will have been there almost in the first or second round of contact with a given area/people.

The problem these days is that given the current government which is by and large Han dominated - the agenda has been one of nation building and pan-sinocism... as if all Chinese were one large and homogenous lot of people. Nothing could be further from the truth. The peoples that inhabit China are far broader and much deeper than to be simply labeled 'Chinese'... but governments always need a way to stabilize and collectivize their peoples in order to maintain control. The government uses language as a way to further build nationalism even though there are hundreds of indigenous languages in China. They get short shrift from a government that seeks to marginalize anything that doesn't lead to a sense of nationalism that will shore up the current power structures.

ahh... but I digress...

So yes it wouldn't be surprising to see if there were trade links and points of influence in culture etc. between the Ukraine and surrounding peoples in relation to China. The Russians had much to do with China for centuries - primarily trade and much of it down to the Russian obsession with drinking tea. In fact today most people think of Chinese as tea drinkers however much of China's tea trade was a result of Russian tea drinkers and the subsequent trade on the Tea Roads. There is a long and fascinating history of the interactions between the two peoples and everyone in between. It wouldn't surprise me if the Ukrainians had also adopted the habit from the Russians.

 

slip, nice post. What is interesting about China's culture is almost the same with the U.S. A hodge podge of other cultures. However, the simularities stop there with government. Another note, the Mongols, like other nomads, romed the Asian continenent thus, like the "Silk Road", distributed information-culture. Interesting, the Great Wall was supposed to keep these types of people out, but a century later (add or subtract some years) , the Mongols ruled China. Gos to show structures are hard to use in trying to oppress a people. China has long since known, it is government which does this.

That said, I am trying to look for a book on symbols I had around the 70's-80's and it has been so long since I read it or saw it around the house, I misplaced it and can't remember the title or author.

Perhaps a list of good references or read, would help this thread.

 

Good stuff.

 

Thanks for replies and sorry for the late respond, some relatives came for visit from Hong Kong, my mum informed at the last moment ~~~

Perhaps I didn't make my point clear, what I suggested in this post is the "yin-yang fishes" taiji symbol is old, much older than what we have previously known, it could be from Tripilja (a.k.a. Cucuteni-Trypillian) culture which flourished between 5500 BC and 2750 BC.

Here are some of my opinions:

1.

This sounds like the basic yin-yang philosophy version 0.1.

2.
A similar pattern of "yin-yang fishes" taiji symbol can be a coincident, however, the "yin dot" within the yang fish and "yang dot" inside the yin fish together with a meaning of flow and charges seems too much of a coinsident.

3.

It seems to me this is the interpretation of the world (or universe) through the eyes of an ancient tribe 5000-7000 years ago.

4.
Both Johan Gunnar Andersson and Rene Grousset had suggested that the ancient tribe of China, the Yangshao (from around 5000 BC to 3000 BC), had been influenced by the Tripilja.

 

That was a great post

I wonder if the shields per Roman Notitia Dignatatum date further.

CA Williams, Terence Barrow,CF Bieber, had some interesting reads

 

@47MartialMan, thanks for the reply.

I've gone through the thread recommended by you, great discussion.

These taiji symbols at the small yet eye-catching Ukraine Pavilion has been much discussed since the trial opening of Expo 2010 in late April, according to the spokeperson of Ukraine Pavilion, this taiji symbol is the oldest in any archaeological finding, at least to date, it is the oldest.

Additional info / References:
1. China Before China by Johan Gunnar Andersson.
2. The Empire of the Steppes: A History of Central Asia by Rene Grousset.

I personally recommend The Empire of the Steppes as pasttime reading, it is a great book.

 

Please correct me, are you stating that the Yin Yang symbol traces as far back to Tripilja (a.k.a. Cucuteni-Trypillian) ?

Thank you for the book references.

Although not entirely about symbols, but a good explanation on some Chinese ones through philosophy, one of my favorite "past time reading" is a book titled;

"A Short History of Chinese Philosophy" by Fung Yu-Lan

 

Thanks for the book recommendation.

Yes, Ukraine Expo 2010 official statement did mention the "yin-yang fishes" taiji symbols are from the Tripilja culture.

I've made some searches over the internet, unfortunately, there are very little information of Cucuteni-Trypillian culture, I found ZERO picture of Tripilja taiji symbol except those on the facade of Ukraine pavilion.

 

My guess is that you will probably find more if you manage to search databases that are connected to universities. The subject matter is so specific that it's going to be almost entirely academic in nature. After just a quick Google I was able to come up with these image is linked to the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture:


source: http://www.iananu.kiev.ua/privatl/pages/Widejko/coursesE/study.htm

 

On a further look we can see that the stylings of much of the artifacts of the Cucuteni-Trypillian could have easily lent themselves to a design such as the Yin Yang symbol so commonly associated with China.

http://firstlegend.info/Jar Tripilian Serpent text.jpg

http://www2.culture.gouv.fr/culture/arcnat/harsova/en/echan2.htm#

There is always the possibility of simultaneous development of the symbol in two entirely different cultures. It's not an unheard of concept. The designs on this Cucuteni jar below are remarkably similar to the Yin Yang design. It doesn't take too much to figure it could have been a variation based on or the root of the symbol:

 

Now whether or not any of this means that the icon or the graphic was imbued with the same significance as what it has been with in Chinese culture we can't say for sure. But it's not really all that crazy to think the image could have started somewhere else and been brought into China. Again - China is not one linear, homogenous culture. As much as the Chinese government would like everyone to think so in order to build in state control and a sense of nationalism. Unfortunately many people eat this hook, line and sinker. Many people don't even understand that the Yuan dynasty was ruled by Mongols. So again... I always scratch my head at those who automatically assume if it's in Chinese it was solely devised by the Chinese with zero outside influence. In fact today you will find that most peoples on the face of it understanding is that China has always been ruled by the Han Chinese... unfortunately for them the facts are otherwise.

At any rate... critiques of the Chinese governments attempts to homogenize Chinese culture aside... there is a very strong link to the designs and imagery of many early and neolithic cultures. It would take a fair bit of training to be able to tell the finite differences between a clay jar that was Cucuteni or Hopi or for that matter from many of the early neolithic Chinese cultures. Neolithic pottery all bear a striking similarity in terms of form, function, materials and surface design.

Below is a video that shows many different artifacts from Cucuteni culture:

http://video-hned.cz/en/video/j_pR7GwqEjQ/CUCUTENI.html

It's not hard at all to see how a symbol like the Yin Yang or it's Cucuteni equivalent could have come out of that culture. Again that's not to say it originated there... I doubt anyone knows for certain. Even among academics I'm sure there would be much conjecture. A place to start would be to look at the earliest existing dates of the symbol appearing in either culture on relics and in the archaeological record.

On the following link:
http://www.europeanvirtualmuseum.ne...otipo_route_en.asp?Type=5&Number=14&lingua=en
The third image down is dated at around 5,000BC and is very similar. Not only in design but perhaps also in what it represents. Very interesting.

The pottery from the neolithic Machiayao culture is in many ways identical to that of many other neolithic cultures. The Cucuteni patterns and pottery are almost interchangeable. In fact unless one was very well educated in the differences they wouldn't have any way of telling one from the other.
http://www.albertomanuelcheung.com/Neolithic Machiayao Jar.htm

 

Coming back to the concept of simultaneous origin and use of symbols we have yet again pretty much the exact same symbol in use during the time of the Western Roman Empire - where the symbol was known as used for military insignia purposes. The original text that this was found in is known as the Notitia Dignitatum- a document noting the details the administrative organisation of the eastern and western empires.

 

and to further reinforce this point we can easily obtain examples of the simultaneous origin and use of the swastika - all much further back than it's appropriation by Nazi germany:

 

@slipthejab thanks for the great info.

This is great, right to the point.

 

I like the "colorized" versions;


http://www.ne.jp/asahi/luke/ueda-sarson/MagisterGalliarum.html