Is there any way of telling someone's true rank? There are two dojos in my town, one of which claims to have a 10th dan as the head instructor and the other dojo has a 5th dan. Both dojos are listed on the warrior networks site and have ties to Dr Hatsumi. I have been warned that the gentleman with the 10th dan ranking may in fact not be at that ranking (more like 5th or sixth dan). How do you find out the truth?
Good queston, ask him for proof. Generally it takes someone else to verify it. Ask him who his instructors were, basically his lineage. If he keeps coming up with, out of the country, can't track him down, everyones dead, he's bs'ing you.
Here is a list of Bujinkan dojos and they're instructor's rank. Since John Wilson is a 13th dan in the bujinkan and resides in canada he may very well have promoted some people to tenth dan. Michel Belisle, 10th Dan, Shidoshi. Provincial Representative This list may be out of date but I am sure the canadian bujinkan assosciation would be more than happy to veirfy a rank for you. (Thats why we pay our membership fees....) Now if they arent affiliated with the bujinkan Im not sure how to help you, other than contact their org headquarters and check their credintials.
Proof of rank within a organization isn't hard, if they both claim to be members of the Bujinkan then you can verify that through the bujinkan. If they aren't claiming affiliation they can claim whatever rank they want.... But rank says little about skill or teaching ability, and more about time in, having the right connections and politics. Go see what they can do and how they can teach, the number is a bad way to choose a school.
hey, i say what soes it matter. I dont even know what dan my instructor is, but that doesnt bother me. All i know and why i study under him was because he knows his stuff and is an exellent instructor. But whats the highest dan anyway?
The reason why I am asking is more about character than it is about skill. North America tends to place skill above character. The gentleman who claims to be a 10th dan may very well be skilled, even more so than my teachers (4th & 5th dan). Because of his rank he may draw more students. Talent will take you to the top, but character is the thing that will keep you there. If this guy is not a 10th dan like he is claiming than that goes to show a deficit in his character, and is someone I would be wary of learning under no matter how skilled he is.
Quick clarification for everyone here: Yes, Ninjutsu in the Bujinkan system has 15 Dan rankings. No, there is not yet a person who holds the rank of 15th Dan. Jack Hoban is 14th from New Jersey and my instructor, Ed Martin (Papa-san), was to receive the same grade but refused it (or so everyone has told me) and so he is 13th Dan. Hatsumi-sensei, himself, claims to be "zero," which is where everyone strives to truly be in Ninjutsu. But the reason for this would take much too long to explain. When training in the art you begin to see that the true number is zero that you are striving to become.
If I remember correctly Bujinkan used to have 10 dans like everyone else. Where Hatsumi was 10th dan and his "second " was Tanemura at 8th dan. Sometime after Tanemura left to start Genbukan whih still has 10 dan level. Hatsumi added 5 more dans levels. I don't know why. But Yoda is right 13th dan sounds very funny.
Eh... Just a question, Plasma, but where did you hear that Hatsumi-sensei was ever a 10th Dan when Tanemura was 8th? I wasn't aware that Sensei ever had a ranking, especially after receiving the schools of Takamatsu-sensei and becoming the grandmaster of those 9 lineages. Just a simple question as I have never heard of Hatsumi-sensei holding a rank before. Any sources for this?
That was the story I always hear. I hear it once from a Genbukan 5th dan, and then again from a sensei that was Bujinkan, then Genbukan, now has his own dojo. But If I remember there are like a billion varations of these stories. In Genbukan 10th = grandmaster. So that might be the confusion
i thought they really didn't use belts (cept to hold up pants) until arts went more worldwide. As to Jttuck's question other than asking there might be no way then again there are waaay to many things you could fake. Although a lie about rank smells Mcdojo to me.
10 plus I thought the bujinkan only had 10 dan grades, with 10th recently being divided into 5 sub-sections to give the judan's more stuff to work on and not to think that their training has ended. Saying 11th dan, 13th dan, etc. is more bujinkan slang than an actual grade number. Besides, even if there was 100 million dan grades, so what? The buj' is an independent organization and doesn't have to stay consistent with other martial arts. Other martial arts don't stay consistent with other martial arts. My aikido style maxes out at 5th dan. Some arts max out at 8th, and some have 10th dan reserved for the head master of the style. I'm an academic (i.e. nerdy college student), so I like the following analogy. Let's say MA 'X' and MA 'Y' have varying degrees of rank/grade, but both have 6th dan as the limit a student can attain. A 6th dan in MA 'X' is like having a PhD in mathematics. A 6th dan in MA 'Y' is like a PhD in literature. They are both called PhD's, but are they the same? Can someone look at the 'Y' 6th dan and remark at that person's skill in literature and then say, "well that 'X' 6th dan must be just as good at literature since he has the same degree" ? Bottomline: it is ridiculous to try to compare the ranking structures of different arts, even if they use the same terminology (kyu, dan), and similar outward markings (colored belts). Like I mentioned about the style of aikido that I practice, there are only 5 dan grades, and there are only 5 kyu levels. I truly believe that those 10 ranks are plenty to completely learn the art. The bujinkan is made up of 9 complete warrior systems. I don't think the 10 kyu ranks and 15 dan grades are enough for all there is to learn!
ranking Is ranking really important?I really believe that ranking is a western thing because us westerners have to have something to show for everything we do.the important thing is do you have the skills,alot of todays martial arts schools seem to have added ranks to systems so they can charge more money for each ranking test.The ranking system we know today has been around a considerably shorter time than the arts we study,therefor each of us should know what is our true ranking is,not by what belt we wear but by our true skills.
