MAists who are scared of sparring

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Van Zandt, Mar 4, 2010.

  1. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    For some martial artists, the thought of "fighting" another person impedes their progress. It seems they are unable to distinguish sport fighting from real fighting; the former is a game of tag, the latter has no rules or referee and poses a very serious threat to one's life. A real fight is based on anger and lack of control; competitive fighting is all about control. Sparring forms 60% of my lessons because I think it's vital to a martial artist's development. Last night I expelled a guy who refused to spar because of this fear. Did I do the right thing? What would you have done if you were the instructor?
     
  2. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    Not everyone wants to be able to fight, whether that's in competition or an altercation. Some people just want to learn the moves and poses, or get fit, or participate in a social activity.
    If that's unacceptable, you did the right thing. If you don't want anyone who cannot fight around, then you were right.

    I don't personally agree with the idea, but that's just me. I consider sparring/randori/rolling to be vital to the development of a martial artist as a whole, but I understand that some people genuinely don't want to be a complete martial artist so much as they want to participate in class for whatever reason. If they impede class through their non-participation, or begin to contribute to a bad atmosphere, then that's a problem. Otherwise, they're good for drills, filling out a class, and paying dues to keep the school healthy. Maybe he/she would have someday developed enough to be willing to participate in sparring.

    It IS extremely irritating to watch someone hide from something harmless and miss out on so many nice things as a result though. I can't stand it.
     
  3. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    I make any potential new studens watch a lesson before they can even take part in a free trial. That way, they know exactly what they're getting involved in before they sign up. The tagline on my ads is: "You will kick people in the head, and you will get kicked in the head." If they don't want to spar, they either have to sit out for over half the lesson or I have to babysit 'em while the others get stuck in. I hate that.
     
  4. Rhizome

    Rhizome Super Valued Member

    a little harsh in my opinion not everyone is strong willed enough to take a punch. You should have tryed to break him in gentley to the idea of sparring.

    ahh read your reply thought you told the guy to not come back.
     
  5. Llamageddon

    Llamageddon MAP's weird cousin Supporter

    I don't know to be honest dude. A bit of me thinks if your lesson is sparring orientated there's no point of the guy being there. But at the same time if it's just full on straight away some people simply can't acclimatise to that.

    To be honest I think that's where the Japanese arts have got it down pat. You start off with very structured sparring - you even tell the guy where you're going to hit them - so there's no surprises and so they can work out how the moves could actually work against other people. They also get used to the image of a fist or a foot flying to their face. The higher up you get in the ranks, the more free flowing it is until do you don't even really see sparring as sparring, you see it as 'block here, counter there, attack everywhere' kind of thing. Unless you're fighting a big guy of course lol.

    I was going to say that remember you were a beginner once and may have been apprehensive about fighting, but you may not have been. But most people are. And most people do MA to get over certain fears or worries. It takes a while to develop a mindset that says 'I'm ok with/I enjoy getting smacked about a bit'. Also, even if it is a game of tag, people can still get (sometimes badly) hurt. We've all seen it happen.

    I don't want to sound too harsh here, but you might have put this guy off MA for life when all he may have needed was a more gradual introduction to the kinds of things we do. But of course if your club isn't designed for that, it's not designed for that
     
  6. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    I think if they knew what to expect yet were hoping to get by without, then yes you did the right thing.

    We had a guy come to our Kyokushin classes a few times, claiming he was training to be an MMA fighter. We do a pretty dynamic warm-up (lots of shadowboxing, calisthenics, jumping around, and the like) and he was gassing halfway through that. His punches were weak, his kicks even worse, and when it was time for kumite he'd say he'd "sit this one out" first because he was hurt, then on his last day he said he didn't want to hurt anybody. We assured him he wouldn't hurt us. Sadly, we weren't the ones who got hurt. After three rounds of a different one of us using him as a heavy bag, he never came back.

    I see what happened to him just like with your student. He liked the idea of what he was doing, but once the reality hit it was too much for him. While I do think progressive sparring is a good idea, if you express no interest in it at all (i.e. no desire to mix it up) initially, then you'll never be a fan IMO.
     
  7. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Well, it's a kick to the face in this case :D (I teach Modified TKD - legs only.) Guy had been training regularly for 4 weeks and avoided sparring every time. He's the first person I've told to leave because of this and it's a rule I will implement every time from now on.

    I did. I meant I hate the idea of babysitting people who avoid sparring. I directed him to the Choi Kwang Do club down the road.
     
  8. pecks

    pecks Valued Member

    can you not lead them/him gently into the idea? for example, in our class sometimes we start off doing some pad work, then applying the technique in 2-person drills, then maybe practice exchanging strikes/blocks, and finally sparring, but with the instructor pointing out that under no circumstances is anyone to go in heavy on a beginner. it might seem a bit of a drag for the class members that are good at sparring, but it never hurts to go over the basics anyway. or you could split the class up into those who are good/comfortable sparring, and those who are not.
     
  9. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    They do very light one-for-one sparring first, wearing full protective gear in which an instructor tags them with a basic kick, eg front kick to the stomach. The student returns the favour. It's literally touch contact at half speed.

    Good point.
     
  10. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    It's your class...you do what you like.
    If it's a class specifically about learning to kick people in the head then having a student that doesn't want to kick people in the head is not doing anything for anyone.
    You or him.
    It's a tad harsh but he's an adult. I'm sure he can work it out.

    How about splitting the class so that you do half an hour of drilling and the rest sparring so that people can still get the benefit of some parts of your class without the sparring?
    My local boxing club does that to some degree. 45 mins of fitness followed by some boxing tuition (half an hour I think). If you don't want the tuition you can leave after the fitness.
     
  11. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    See previous post.

    Every newcomer embarks on the same gradual incline to full sparring. Safety is paramount (full gear, monitoring the situation etc) and even full speed sparring is semi-contact. My goal is to produce super kickers, which means being able to apply that skill to a live opponent.
     
  12. Rhizome

    Rhizome Super Valued Member

    its all about gaining confidence in my opinion ive seen friends who were not keen on the idea of sparring at all become great fighters, but they needed to be let in gentley and with time there confidence has grown.
     
  13. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Can I just add that being scared of sparring is fine.
    But a real martial artist recognises that fear and does it anyway.
    That is what martial arts is about.
    As such I'd hesitate to call this bloke a martial artist.

    You couldn't for example call someone a swimmer if all they did was watch from the pool side.

    I'm a brilliant skiier. I just don't happen to put ski's on and go down mountains because it scares me. :)
     
  14. illegalusername

    illegalusername Second Angriest Mapper

    Real men ski UP mountains anyway.

    (there's an extended metaphor here but i'll be damned if i can find it)
     
  15. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Milk just came out of my nose.

    And I wasn't drinking milk.

    I think I broke something.
     
  16. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    My main art..wait for it is..aikido. PLEASE READ ON.

    The training I received was as a self defence art and the aim was to attack at all times intimidate the opponent and break his spirit.

    To attain this attitude the training was SEVERE in that I was knocked about constantly attacking shihan who left no openeing and every attack I made I was banged into the mat.

    The techniques I was taught I could apply on fellows of similar grades BUT facing the shihan.. again I could do nothing and again I was beasted. THIS type of training I found to be more demanding thn competing in judo karate and kendo. If both men in a competition have the attitude of refusing to compete and simply go from alert to 100% all out attack..both shall be injured..one seriously.This is why there are rules.

    Now the difficult part. Many JMA's shall never know if they have been training properly until they get into a real fight. That is why I have crosstrained for decades..that and the fact that I worked in deprived areas of Glasgow for twenty odd years.

    ALL of my students crosstrain to get the experience of competition. Those who have never competed should pray that they have endured proper training. sadly Chiba shihan once told me "True martial artists shall always be in the minority.

    If we are talking about real martial artists..if he is scared he better get over it or get out.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2010
  17. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    I think the biggest thing I would note is that you are very clear about what the goal and main thrust of the class is - sparring. If a person doesn't want to spar, then I would agree that they shouldn't be there. Granted, I am assuming that you did some sort of intro for the guy and spent some time teaching him the techniques and rules and familiarity so he could see that you aren't just a kill-the-new-guy club... it seems like he proabbly had a good idea of what you do and how you protect/teach students and it sounds like it's not a good fit for him.
     
  18. AndrewTheAndroid

    AndrewTheAndroid A hero for fun.

    Beginners are afraid of getting hurt. "Experts" who are affraid to spar are usually afraid of finding out they aren't "t3e d34dly."
     
  19. pauli

    pauli mr guillotine

    we work up from drills. standing, we start with slow motion, and very gradually add speed and power. on the ground, we begin with guard passing drills, eventually adding in submissions till we're rolling full speed.

    i had a training partner who took quite some time to warm up to sparring. she was raised buddhist, and had a very hard time reconciling the idea of trying to punch someone in the face with her beliefs. i believe she eventually satisfied her conscience that there is no malice in sparring, and was able to distinguish between violence and training for violence. at the very least, she eventually got comfortable punching me in the face...

    at a basic level, i firmly believe that people who find themselves incontrovertibly opposed to sparring shouldn't stand around clogging the mats and pretending to train. unless you are going to practice your techniques on a resisting opponent, you aren't practicing martial arts - you're just going through motions. if all you're there for are 'mental and physical benefits,' there are a whole hell of a lot of safer and more effective ways to get those than martial arts.
     
  20. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    What did this guy actually say about his unwillingness to spar?
     

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