joint problem

[mr shoosh]

just wanted to let anyone know thats had a niggling long term joint injury to try a supplement called serra enzime, its part of a group of suplements from the Serrapeptase family which is a powerful anti inflamotory and is naturally occurring,
Serrapeptase digests non-living tissue, and inflammation in all forms.
I had knee surgery for torn miniscus and am due more surgery on my left and right knee and have constant pain for last two years, this has put a stop to a lot of what i used to do in kuk sool.
A good friend of mine from liverpool kuk sool took this for his shoulder probs and really kept on for me to try it and im so glad i did bout 95% of the pain iv had for last two years has gone and im back doin things in training which i couldnt do before.

It doesnt get rid of the injury but it defo makes it a whole lot more bareable.

Hope someone gets benifit out this i cant recomend strongly enuff you try it if your having injury probs, I wouldnt have believed it, but the student gave me a bottle and told me to email him a week later to tell him how i felt,i cant thank him enuff for letting me know bout it
just passing on the good word

[Pugil]

I don't know about Serra Enzime [sic], but I find Sarah Lilley is quite good for me: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gi...4561269&ref=ts and http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=587255337&ref=ts

[Demdike]

1) Before anyone spends their cash on this stuff, read the wiki entry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serratiopeptidase
There is not a shred of evidence to suggest this stuff works as advertised

2) if you want to read about the claims of this stuff see http://www.chantillyhealth.com/1858962.html
Total scientific bunkum. If it worked as advertised all the scar tissue in the body would dissolve. And anyway how on earth is an enzyme going to get through the gut wall into the bloodstream?

If you want to consume a proteolytic enzyme just eat pineapple. Or dried Papain
At least it will taste nice and help bowel action (especially if you're a meat eater)
I'm not saying that Mr Shooh's symptoms didn't improve, just that there is a high probability the results were due to a placebo or psychosomatic effect

[mr shoosh]

i get what your saying iv worked as a personal trainer for 12 years and have studyed anatomy,exercise and nutrition for years and am fully aware of placebo effect etc,from what i have read they are enterically-coated tablets so they pass through the stomach and are absorbed in the intestines.I had two years pain then next to no pain in a week of trying a new supplement, i have tryed lots of other joint suplements, clucosamine, condrotine msm cod liver oil ect and no placebo effect took place with them my knee hurt like hell.i based this on trying it, i was skeptical and it has helped me out also two of my pals who have had meniscus probs,
I have had great results from this and wanted to pass it on.i took the stuff for a week no pain stoped for two days pain returned went back on it then next to no pain
miniscus tears are definatley physiological and no amout of Psychological placebo wishing away the pain will help.My knee feels 95% better than it did.

[Pugil]

I'll stick with Sarah, it's far more pleasant having her work on me than popping expensive pills down my throat. Thanks all the same though. Glad it worked for you Don.

I liked the experiment they did in the States with arthroscopic surgery. They took a batch of people who had suffered knee pain for a long time, carried out a full procedure on half of them, whilst only making a couple of tiny incisions in the other half, and they had the same number of positive outcomes.

[mr shoosh]

further reading
Mazzone A, Catalani M, Costanzo M, Drusian A, Mandoli A, Russo S, Guarini E, Vesperini G. Evaluation of Serratia peptidase in acute or chronic inflammation of otorhinolaryngology pathology: a multicentre, double-blind, randomized trial versus placebo. J Int Med Res. 1990; 18(5):379-88.

Moriya N, Nakata M, Nakamura M, Takaoka M, Iwasa S, Kato K, Kakinuma A. Intestinal absorption of Serrapeptase ™ (TSP) in rats. Biotechnol Appl Biochem. 1994; 20(Pt1):101-8.

Mazzone A, et al. Evaluation of Serratia peptidase in acute or chronic inflammation of otorhinolaryngology pathology: a multicentre, double-blind, randomized trial versus placebo. J Int Med Res. 1990; 18(5):379-88

Esch PM, Gerngross H, Fabian A. Reduction of postoperative swelling. Objective measurement of swelling of the upper ankle joint in treatment with Serrapeptase ™-a prospective study (German). Fortschr Med. 1989;107(4):67-8, 71-2.

In Germany and other European countries, Serrapeptase is a common treatment for inflammatory and traumatic swellings, and much of the research that exists on this substance is of European origin. One double-blind study was conducted by German researchers to determine the effect of Serrapeptase on post-operative swelling and pain. This study involved sixty-six patients who were treated surgically for fresh rupture of the lateral collateral ligament of the knee. On the third post-operative day, the group receiving Serrapeptase exhibited a 50 percent reduction of swelling, compared to the controls. The patients receiving Serrapeptase also became more rapidly pain-free than the controls, and by the tenth day, the pain had disappeared completely

got to say thats very similar to how my pain disapered, the placebo effect dont add up for me

[mr shoosh]

hey pugil i was aware of that study my knee got worse after surgery maybe i imagined my knee to get worse lol

[KSstudent]

I've had a useless X-ray, (Insurance makes the Dr. do it 1st), and an M.R.I. on my knee / legg, Dr. can't see anything wrong ????? So maby some "make belive" cure will help My "imaganary" pain. Thanks, I'll let Y'all know in a couple weeks.

[unknown-KJN]

Originally Posted by KSstudent

Thanks, I'll let Y'all know in a couple weeks.

Just out of curiosity, to which ONE of us are you directing this comment?


I only ask because the way it was explained to me, "y'all" is obviously the singular form, because the plural form is, "all y'all."

[Pugil]

Originally Posted by mr shoosh

hey pugil i was aware of that study my knee got worse after surgery maybe i imagined my knee to get worse lol

Yeah, but you aren't supposed to DIY when it comes to surgery Don! Incidentally, the best knee surgeons in the world used to be in Ireland. I expect you can guess why.

[KSW CANADA]

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