I was reading a magazine article about Sabaki, the Enshin Karate competition and how it gives alot of points for throws. Given that Wado Ryu combines Karate and Jujutsu together, do their comps feature similar point scoring methods? Also do wado ryu people often go in the Sabaki comp? Cheers Boards
I believe that Wado competitions are light-contact point-stop with face punching, whereas Enshin is definitely full-contact continuous without face punches. Growing up in Colorado (Enshin territory...the world headquarters is in Denver) and being good friends with two Wado karateka, it's worth noting that they never once mentioned training or competing with Enshin guys.
Nope, as Mitlov said, Wado and Enshin tend to move in their own circles (as with most martial arts) and not cross-compete.
Hello, Wado ryu competitive sparing or "Shiai" has typically evolved down the point scoring route - using semi contact techniques. As I understand it, this approach was originally developed as Karate's answer to Kendo and judo - using similar methodologies. Later this method was adopted by groups like today’s WKF as the standard approach to competitive sparing. Given that Enshin Karate tends to practice it competitive fighting in full contact mode - a cross over is unlikely on the same sporting arena. Of course, there is nothing to stop athletes from either art competing against one and other on either platform, but in my experience competitors tend to focus on their particular game. You get good at what you practice - and the games are different. Also, when Wado and Jujutsu are mentioned in the same sentence, people tend to think of the "jujutsu" bit as being that of modern / sport jujustu. This is not quite the case - as the Jujutsu element in Wado is more reference to its Koryu parentage ie Shindo Yoshin Ryu. Quite frankly this is a country mile from the Jujutsu that most people have in their minds eye when the word is mentioned. Gary
I guess wado being point fighting and enshin being full contact would make it hard for them to compete together. Thanks for the info guys.
OSU!!! Boards-san, I suppose I am more qualified to answer this as I practice both Wado and Ashihara karate, Enshin is an Offshot of Ashihara (Kancho Ninomiya was one of Kancho Ashihara's Shihans). Wado is more about small traditional movements where as Enshin/Ashihara are more "agressive" Wado is Goshin Karate whereas Enshin/Ashihara is Jissen Karate. This is a good observation from a Japanese Wado Ryu Yudansha (he trains with Hironori (Jiro) Ohtsuka II Sensei); of the two styles "After looking at the Chinese characters "Goshin" is "guard self" and "Jissen" is "true battle". It makes sense. You tend to find that Wado is very 'Goshin' because it is mostly based on jujutsu and became karate when Otsuka sensei studied with Funakoshi. It then broke away from Shotokan as it wasn't maybe 'aggressive' enough because there were no free sparring elements in Funakoshi's Shotokan. A Goshin base seems to be more for intercepting attacks 'should' they come not necessarily when they come. Wado in my opinion seeks to attack an opponent first but should the opponent attack then it can be intercepted. The Wado kata though seem based on only the moving around of attacks and then striking your opponent. Otsuka Sensei shows this well when he demonstrates...idori" Jissen seems very good for stand up battering each other but it seems to favour a power base over a speed base. Both require good Tai Sabaki however Goshin requires accurate strikes to critical points with speed in real situations but Jissen requires you to mess up your opponents form as much as possible then take them out with a powerful strike." I have described it slightly different below for those who still do not see the difference I suppose we could put it in another Context, the difference between Football (soccer for the Americans) and Rugby. Jissen being Rugby and Football being Goshin. Jissen (Rugby) karate. Knockdown karate is very dare I say "aggressive" you can see that in the sparring - the same as in Rugby. The players are "aggressive" but it is a controlled "gentleman's" aggression you get more knocks and bangs and bruises etc. You're tougher, you can take more punishment before you 'fold' and you're stronger too as you need to be to be able to take on the bigger players. You tend to go straight in towards your opponent but you do twist and turn as your heading up the field. Goshin (Football) karate. Traditional Karate is dare I say "passive" you can see that too in the sparring - the same as it Football. The players are "passive" but can react "aggressively" when required. The players are leaner and move quicker and are work more on timing and twisting and turning as opposed to going directly at their opposite player. It’s about tapping and "hit and run" in the game using your speed and accuracy rather than strength and aggression. Hope this helps to understand what was written - remember all is an opinion and can be amended and change as Karate Do is a way of life and we continually spend our lives correcting and amending and changing ethos regards our karate.
Hi Ken, I am really struggling to understand your (or Tony's) way of comparing the two styles. "Goshin" may well mean to "guard-self" (or more properly it refers to self defense in Japanese MA terms), but I think that is only one facet of studying Wado, or any MA for that matter. It’s much more than that, and to categorise it in such a way shows a lack of understanding / experience - Futanren? Also I don't understand your comment about Idori. As I understand it, Idori is a good way to learn how to move more efficiently (amongst other things), but these are basic principles of any ma aren't they? Also I don’t think Idori particularly singles out evasive techniques as you post suggests (any more than say Wado’s Kihon Kumite) – but perhaps they are more of an exercise in Aiki maybe? TBH I think your descriptions are too simplistic - for the want of putting things into boxes. In reality, I shouldn't think its like that for either style - otherwise they both lack depth. Gary
