What's the most impressive JKD vid on utube?

[Fire-quan]

Originally Posted by DaeHanL

the video does a good job to explain your point, but i do have a question. what if the two guys fighting do 'jkd.'

There's a Chinese saying my coach learned from a san da coach in China - when two otherwise completely equal armies meet, the bravest one wins.

So, either that's what would happen, or, far more likely:

YouTube - Highlander - MacLeod receives The Prize

YouTube - Highlander - MacLeod receives The Prize

[Yohan]

Originally Posted by february

Most people's perception of non-concepts JKD is basically bad wing chun mixed with some sloppy boxing. This is the pervasive "brand" pushed through the mainstream. Through research and finding a good instructor I was able to see real JKD for what it is, modified Boxing and Fencing with the hands and feet, facilitated by a compact structure, footwork and constant movement. Hopefully, as time goes on more people will be exposed to this and will see JKD for what it's supposed to be.

Here's a video that I quite like which is different from the usual "20 million traps then straight blast" nonsense that's banded about.

YouTube - What is Jeet Kune Do?

Nice dude! I think that was a freakin awesome drill! Very similar to what we might do at my school. Notice how oldschool that video was, and those guys used the adjective "alive" to describe the drill.

Originally Posted by DaeHanL

the video does a good job to explain your point, but i do have a question. what if the two guys fighting do 'jkd.' will they both just constantly blast one another and intercept each other constantly? surely one of them would have to adapt in order to gain the advantage, and what they would do would no longer look like what you see in the above video.

for example, in MMA you see two grapplers force themselves into a stand-up match because they can't take each other down.

Your point is valid, but you have to look at what they are doing within the context of the drill.

A lot of people don't know this, but Sean Sherk (former UFC lightweight champion) and Brock Lesnar (current heavyweight champion) train with the same guy: Greg Nelson.

Who is Greg Nelson? Here's his bio:

Greg Nelson has his roots in athletic training and competition. Nelson is a former University of Minnesota Wrestling Team member and an All-American high school gymnast. Since starting his martial arts training in 1983, Mr. Nelson has earned Full Instructor Credentials in Jun Fan Martial Arts/Jeet Kune Do Concepts, the Filipino Martial Arts, and a Level III Instructor in Maphilindo Silat under Guru Dan Inosanto. Mr. Nelson is also a Full Instructor in Muay Thai under Ajarn Chai Sirisute of the Thai Boxing Association of the USA. A grappler at heart, Nelson earned the level of Advanced Student in Shoot Wrestling under Sensei Yurinaga Nakamura, and a certified Full Instructor in Combat Submission Wrestling under Erik Paulson. In 2002 Greg was awarded his Black Belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu under professor Pedro Sauer. Greg has taught tactical training to numerous Federal and local law enforcement agencies and military units, including the FBI, the US Army National Guard, and the Federal Air Marshalls. In addition, Greg is a husband and father of two young children. Greg is also a 2 time cancer survivor after beating first non-nodgkins lymphoma and secondly beating a rare form of nerve cancer called neurolymphomatosis.

On a competitive level, Nelson has put his skills to the test. After graduating from college in 1989, Nelson started competing again in 1993. Nelson fought Muay Thai in the US and in Canada, Amateur Shoot Wrestling(MMA), won a Gold Medal in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu in the 1999 Pan-Ams, a Silver Medal in thee 2000 Pan-Ams, and most recently three golds in 2001 Grappling Games in LA.

As a coach, Nelson has developed numerous champions in Muay Thai, with several fighters holding title belts from the UFC, CMTF, USMTA, IKF, ISKA, WKA, NAGA, and a Bronze Medal in the 1996 Muay Thai World Championships. In submission grappling and mixed martial arts competitions Academy fighters have victories and titles in the the Ultimate Fighting Championships, Pride Bushido, BodogFIGHT, Shooto, King Of The Cage, Super Brawl, Hook-N-Shoot, All-Osaka Shoot Boxing Championships, San Shou Championships in Bejing China, IFC, Extreme Challenge, Danger Zone, WEF, WEC, and many more. Fighters such as UFC Lightweight Champion Sean Sherk, IKF & WKA Pro-Muay Thai Champion Nat McIntyre, CMTF/USMTA Champion James Cook, Former UFC Middleweight Champion Dave Menne, BodogFIGHT Welterwight Champion Nick "The Goat" Thompson, Adam Clary, John Renken, Tom Schmitz, and Brad Kohler have gained the mass of their Muay Thai and MMA training under the tutelage of Greg Nelson.

And a video of him holding the pads for Sean Sherk:

YouTube - Greg Nelson Pad Drills

YouTube - Greg Nelson Pad Drills

I'm with DaeHan that MMA competitors are some of the best, if not the best fighters in the world. It's awesome that the JKD crowd is able to produce some of the athletes in the mix. I think the fact that one of the best MMA coaches in the world is a JKD guy is AWESOME!

[Yohan]

So in answer to your question - there isn't really any one video that I'm all that into. The materials that trainers like Dan Inosanto, Larry Hartsell (RIP), Richard Bustillo, and even Greg Nelson have produced are awesome. The events produced by fighters like Sean Sherk and Brock Lesnar are awesome. The materials produced by the other high caliber athletes and Martial artists produce pretty much speak for themselves (for ill or for good).

[DaeHanL]

Greg Nelson also is a Brain Cancer survivor. Goes to show you how much of a fighter he really is. I know my instructor said he trained with Greg and the guy could consistently hit hard enough to get a knock out from his back, which I think is pretty darn impressive.

[PdubJKD]

Originally Posted by DaeHanL

after searching for videos that looked like real fighting, i have discovered that I don't really buy into the whole jkd hype thing anymore. I have found the best fighters usually fight in mma. the most realistic looking matches usually happen in japan. (less rules)

there are some MMA guys who give the sport a bad name with elitist perfection seeking martial artists (myself included). There are also some out there that fight efficiently, and with their own style. i feel that is truly self expression as it was intended.

YouTube - Hideo Tokoro Highlight
YouTube - Anderson The Spider Silva Tribute Highlights

I have found that most of BL's followers just want to fight like him, or to feel for a moment what it might be like to be him. capture some of his essence. Other camps end up all fighting the same and have no element of surprise. I spar guys that do ojkd and let me tell you, i punish them. It's because i've seen everything that they can do a million times, and there is no unique quality. When your main objective is to cover the centerline, thrust on it, and take the shortest route in all scenarios, it's pretty darn predictable. don't get me wrong it works on noobs.

ever notice how you don't see many jf/o jkd guys in the ring/cage? we all know the real reason isn't because they might kill people with their skills like some might have you think.

well daewoo, JKD isnt a sport its self defense/street. JKD consist of eye jabs, groin blows, shots to the throat, and etc etc.Things you dont see in the cage.

You say JKD fighters are predictable....Say you encounter one in the streets. You think he is going to tell you that he is a JKD fighter before you square up? Noooo. Your going to move in and he will intercept you. Hes gonna give you a good eye jab, a side kick to the knee, or even a groin shot. Before youve figured out he is "JKD" youll be up ***** creek w/o a paddle.

see my point?

[Fire-quan]

Originally Posted by PdubJKD

well daewoo, JKD isnt a sport its self defense/street. JKD consist of eye jabs, groin blows, shots to the throat, and etc etc.Things you dont see in the cage.

You say JKD fighters are predictable....Say you encounter one in the streets. You think he is going to tell you that he is a JKD fighter before you square up? Noooo. Your going to move in and he will intercept you. Hes gonna give you a good eye jab, a side kick to the knee, or even a groin shot. Before youve figured out he is "JKD" youll be up ***** creek w/o a paddle.

see my point?

The thing is, by almost universal agreement, where JKD is at its most impressive zenith is where it's evolved in to MMA - i.e. sport combat, ring based martial art. A massive part of the kudos of JKD in this thread is carried by the elements of JKD that have evolved in to MMA. So, if you take that away - because, MMA doesn't look much like JKD; there's no fancy trapping, eye gouges, or much shin kicking - what do you have? MMA is an extension of the principles of JKD, much more than an extension of its techniques, in my opinion.

See, to me, it's not enough to say 'eye gouges and groin kicks' - that's not 'JKD' - it's two techniques, found in a multiple of martial arts - both of those are in my contemporary wushu eagle claw form, as it happens. MMA guys can do that just as easily. It's a mistake to think that 'no rules' levels down MMA guys to your (general your) level - 'cos in reality, giving them a no rules scenario just makes THEM much more dangerous!

What I'm saying is, on the one hand, we have a JKD which is basically fancy trapping, which apart from those who do it, not many have confidence in, and a JKD which is not an art, but the process of learning boxing, BJJ, muay thai, wing chun, silat and kali. So will the real JKD please stand up? Is this what Bruce Lee wanted?

More interestingly, maybe Bruce would have been happy not to have any 'JKD' style existing. Maybe he'd be very happy to have seen the development of pro MMA, and very happy to see the development of a very simple, core syllabus of movements easily learned by people who wanted to have some effective, basic self defence. I rather think he didn't want a massive, bloated 'system' attributed to him. But, I can't think for him, it's just the impression I get from his words.

[DaeHanL]

Originally Posted by PdubJKD

well daewoo, JKD isnt a sport its self defense/street. JKD consist of eye jabs, groin blows, shots to the throat, and etc etc.Things you dont see in the cage.

You say JKD fighters are predictable....Say you encounter one in the streets. You think he is going to tell you that he is a JKD fighter before you square up? Noooo. Your going to move in and he will intercept you. Hes gonna give you a good eye jab, a side kick to the knee, or even a groin shot. Before youve figured out he is "JKD" youll be up ***** creek w/o a paddle.

see my point?

first let me educate you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daewoo
daehan is my name, and i have never manufactured a car or electronic device in my life, i swear!

second let me address this street-stuff with deadly non-sporting blows. once you learn to bob, weave, avoid, catch, parry, ride, etc. it doesn't matter where the person is aiming their tool. avoiding it should come naturally. catching a jab to my face is no different than catching an eye jab. catching a punch to the throat requires me to move my hand down 2" from where i usually catch. not that difficult.
so what you are left with in the second part of your arguement is the element of surprise. in the scenario you've given both parties have it. no one is at an advantage. I would be just as surprised to get a kick to the knee as a jkd fighter would be to feel me half escape, shoot, and get mount! dare i say the "jkd" fighter might be more surprised to have a resisting opponent!

Fire-Quan great post and I have also pondered the same thing about Bruce's feelings on having a system based after him which has become a gospel. one man's truth being forced down everyone else's throat as the only truth. I no longer say i practice JKD because it is after-all only a name.

[1ToNJaB]

"MMA is an extension of the principles of JKD"... this bugs me.

Bruce Lee got his ideas from books and training with other martial artists. The Tao of Jeet Kune Do is compilation of different quotes from his personal Library. Any serious martial artist with a real interest has a collection of books. What I find amusing is how Bruce Lee found quotes and took out words like "Zen" and replaced it with the word "Jeet Kune Do"... And a whole bunch of other fighting principles and just added the word "Jeet Kune Do", I'm surprised the publications aren’t infringing on copyright laws. However, the Tao of Jeet Kune Do wasn’t supposed to be publicized, John Little put together the book after Bruce Lee's death.

Here are some quotes I just found and added the word "Jeet Kune Do" to it...


*Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby a Jeet Kune Do man can be the director of the opponent's fate.* Sun Tzu

*A Jeet Kune Do man is skillful with his attack when his opponent does not know what to defend; and he is skilful in defense whose opponent does not know what to attack.* Sun Tzu

*The supreme art of Jeet Kune Do is to subdue the enemy without fighting.* Sun Tzu

The principles on fighting that Bruce Lee supposedly came up with are found in other styles, mostly from boxing, fencing and a little Wing-Chun. The Straight Lead Punch is found in some Boxing styles. Fencing foot-work is nothing new. I laugh when I hear that MMA fighters are using JKD principles... they mostly use Boxing, Wrestling, Muay Thai and Brazilian Ju-jitsu.

Bruce Lee was a MMA trainer, he was NOT the first. Would his MMA style from the 70s match well against MMA styles of today? MMA styles of today are being constantly tested and pro's can actually make money by using these methods. The win rate of todays MMA methods are high. Whats JFJKD's win rate?

[1ToNJaB]

We only have 2 arms and 2 legs.

[path_one]

Sometimes I just don't understand why there is a big fuss about JKD being this or that. having two guys that practise JKD go against eachother should look different because they are two different people using what they can to win the fight. Just because they're both "JKD men" doesn't mean they'll fight the same.

Sure there is that whole economy of motion, nearest target stuff but that is limiting yourself which no one should do. Isn't one of the philosophies of JKD to use against your opponent what he doesn't have? Nullify what he has using what you have in your arsenal, which should have many tools considering the cross training you should have done.

There are stories of Bruce being handled by the likes of Judo Gene... then getting into grappling so he wouldn't get owned against a grappler in future.

I don't think BL was the greatest fighter either, the chances of that are too slim especially as time goes. I think his thoughts on fighting make
some sense though. I also think it silly to try fighting like him, especially when we haven't really seen him fight!

JKD doesn't limit me to the "principles" or "concepts" of JKD, I train in various arts to bridge the gap between myself and practitioners of a variety of different arts should I find myself up against one in future.

MMA shouldn't equate to ring/cage/octagon (sport). Training in various disciplines = mixed martial arts. This shouldn't mean MMA with small gloves, a ref and rules.

Its tough judging an art that wasn't intended to be named or even thought of as an "art"

[DaeHanL]

I can't disagree with any of that.
Well stated

[Fire-quan]

Originally Posted by DaeHanL

second let me address this street-stuff with deadly non-sporting blows. once you learn to bob, weave, avoid, catch, parry, ride, etc. it doesn't matter where the person is aiming their tool.

Surely you want to re-phrase that?

[DaeHanL]

Weapon? Now it all sounds dirty. Shame on you LOL

[The Furious One]

Originally Posted by Stevie Bhoy

Got to disagree here, footwork is only part of it. Connecting with the opponent where it hurts wins fights.

Power comes from the feet, you do not fight in a fixed position, you move you look for the openings, you push forward, you retreat, you bob and weave, its all in the footwork otherwise you're just a punch bag.

[Stevie Bhoy]

Originally Posted by The Furious One

Power comes from the feet, you do not fight in a fixed position, you move you look for the openings, you push forward, you retreat, you bob and weave, its all in the footwork otherwise you're just a punch bag.

I agree with your statement, like I stated previously footwork is part of it, it obviously has a major part to play. It all ties in with body mechanics, ie, alignment, shifting weight etc.