I can't seem to find the reference right now, but I remember reading an article that mentioned other points in addition to pressure points. It mentioned nerve points and blood points. Does anyone have any additional information on what these are or have a list of the points? Here is one to get things started: hyul kyul (called a blood pulse area) -located 1 inch behind wrist joint toward inside of arm.
This sounds to me like a misrepresentation of LUNG-7 (Yuhl Gyuhl - 열결). This is where the energy splits off the Lung Meridian to connect with the Large Intestine Meridian and is the point that you attack for Maek Chigi #1. Most of the points attacked in the technique sets of Meak Chigi & Maek Chagi, despite using acupuncture points to designate the area you are to strike, have underlying anatomical structures which make them so vulnerable (such as you mentioned, nerves and/or blood vessels). Remember that the word MAEK (맥) can mean "pulse" as well as "vessel" (usually pertaining to a blood vessel). This is why the technique sets are not called HYUL CHIGI/CHAGI, even though the points targeted are actually called HYUL (혈). My suspicion is that because using TCM as the underlying method to understand the physiology rather than western medical science, the hyul are used as a "topographical map" of the body, instead of saying, "near the tubercle on the medial side of the radius bone... blah, blah, blah, more medical mumbo-jumbo parlance." Hopefully this made enough sense to be useful.
Here is the quote for Hyul Kyul. "Another forearm point is hyul kyul. This isn't a pressure point, but rather a blood pulse area equally as sensitive as a pressure point. Hyul Kyul is found approximately one inch behind the wrist joint, toward the inside of the arm. Since it's in a narrow part of the body, strike with a knife hand instead of your arm." But you still could be right about them referring to Yuhl Gyuhl as that would make a lot of sense. By the way the article was attributed to In Hyuk Suh. I looked through a few dozen magazines hoping to find the exact quote, but I haven't found it yet. But to the best of my memory there was just a blurb that said something like "in addition to 678 pressure points there are also 182 nerve points and 10,000 blood points used in kuk sool won." The numbers aren't exact, but that's the best I can remember... Also what's your take on the points listed in the red book like sam doo bak keun (triceps maybe?), e doo bak keun (bicep ?), kwan ja nol ee (temple?), mok dong mak (I don't have a guess for this one).
Right, I didn't just assume that it was a mistake based on the similarity in the sound of the name, but in conjunction with its location (that IS a fairly accurate depiction of where yuhl gyuhl is located, BTW). If the article was written by Jane Hallander (RIP), remember she was notorious for garbling the korean terms if not getting it completely wrong altogether. FWIW, "blood" in korean is hyuhl-aek (혈액; 血液) so hyuhl could easily get mixed up with yuhl (열) when discussing blood points (aek; 액; 液 - means fluid or juice). And as far as the points mentioned in the red textbook are concerned, I'm afraid they're fraught with inconsistency and error. The main listing for these fall on pages 61-65 with diagrams followed by photographs. And although not pressure points per se, those other things you saw mentioned in the book are merely physical structures of the body and your assumptions as to their meaning are correct as far as I can tell (keun means "muscle" so my guess is that sam doo bak keun & ee doo bak keun are the triceps & biceps respectively, and kwan ja nol ee is translated as "the temple" in my K/E dictionary - [edit] FWIW, BF also translates 관자놀이 as "temple of the head" [/edit]). You didn't say where you saw those different things listed, though I found many of them in the descriptions of the Ki Bon Soo techniques (which confirms my guess for the triceps & biceps). I didn't search through the book that thoroughly but still didn't notice that last one which you had no guess for, and rather than have me scour the book looking for where it is mentioned, it would help me considerably if you could list the page number where you saw "mok dong mak." In the meantime, here's my guess: mok=neck, dong=torso, mak=membrane. This makes me think of the point used on KBS #12, but I doubt that's it because p. 89 clearly says this point is "cheun chang hyul" (note: I don't know of a point with this name near the throat but CV-22 is chuhn dohl; 천돌; 天突, and what I think is the actual acupoint used in KBS #12). I'm not trying to trash the book as it's fairly good with providing decent info, but you have to "read between the lines" in order to appreciate what's there (either that or have the blue cover or black cover edition to contrast the english with the korean). Below are some examples of what I mean: On pages 63 & 65 (the charts & photos), the point BL-40/54 (attacked in maek chagi #3) is listed as "we joong hyul" but when describing Ki Bon Soo #2 (p. 80) and KBS #9 (p. 86), it's listed as "wei joong hyul" and "wei jung hyul" respectively. The chart on p. 62 also shows a point in the elbow called "kog tai hyul" which I will assume means HC-3 (gohk taek; 곡택; 曲澤) so it should've been written as "kog taik hyul" (an obvious typo). Additionally, this point looks more like it's located where LI-11 belongs (gohk ji; 곡지; 曲池), but admittedly they're not the best drawings I've ever seen, so I'm not going to be too picky about this as an error. Also despite LI-10 (수삼리; 手三里) being written as "soo sam ri hyul" (i.e. 3 words PLUS the word "hyul"), for some reason GB-1 (동자료; 瞳子髎) is only written as "dong ja ryo" and not as dong ja ryo hyul. On p. 64, a technique similar to Ji-Ap Sool #6 is said to be attacking "kaig joo in" (obviously meaning GB-3, Gaek Joo In; 객주인; 客主人), but I feel that the point being attacked is GB-1 since most people's fingers just aren't long enough to reach around the forehead and properly attack GB-3 on both sides (GB-1 is located near the lateral end of the eyebrow, and GB-3 about an inch behind that). EDIT #2: My favorite mistake which I originally meant to include is on p. 81, discussing the finish for KBS #3 next to the 4th photo at the very bottom. The picture shows the guy getting hit in the nose, not the forehead. Also, goo mee hyul (CV-15;구미; 鳩尾; dove's tail) is located in the chest (commonly referred to as the "solar plexus"). I could go on, but hopefully this is sufficient enough data to confirm my assessment. And not exactly related to the countless errors in the book, but since I mentioned Gaek Joo In again (GB-3), I think I'll bring up the fact that the "standard" traditional name for this point is Sahng Gwahn (upper hinge; 上關) and is located just above the TemporoMandibular Joint and that ST-7 is called Hah Gwahn (lower hinge; 下關) and located just below the TMJ.
I'm not sure who exactly wrote the article. It was in Inside Kung-Fu under the monthly column called Korean Conscience. I'm not sure which version of the book you have, but it's KBS#15 (page 83 or 91 depending on which version of the red book you have) Good guess on the name, b/c it is located on the neck. My version of the blue book is in English but I do have a copy of the Kidohae album that is in Korean I see 목 동맥을.
Yes, that was my other guess, that "mak" was a typo for "maek" (I think we all know MAEK=vessel). No doubt, the idea to call Hohn Soo, "hohn soo" must've come later (perhaps from the english term of a "sleeper" choke hold?). Here's what it says under the first photo: Notice that the word VEIN is misspelled as well ("wein"), so there's no doubt in my mind that the jugular is what's being referenced. This is on page 91 in the copy I have (no photos of instructors in the back). I've seen all of the various editions at one time or another though (black, blue, & red covers). I don't recall whether it's the arteries or the veins, but the larger ones have a *sensor* that sends signals back to the brain as to the condition of the blood pressure. If you strike one of these hard enough, it makes the pressure shoot up and then drop (like stepping on a garden hose affects the flow of water to a sprinkler). The brain interprets this as a significant problem that the heart is in distress and tries to ease the workload by making the body horizontal instead of vertical, where the upright posture would require more effort by the heart to pump the blood against the force of gravity. In essence, you either get dizzy or faint outright. Most of these blood vessels are located in the neck, leading straight up from the heart into the head, but the femoral artery (or vein) just so happens to be large enough (it's the largest blood vessel in the leg) that it too, has this SENSOR capability. So even though a sufficiently strong blow to Hyul Hae (SP-10; 혈해; 血海; sea of blood) that would send the disruptive signal to the brain should work similar to a blow delivered to the neck, the strike would most likely buckle the knee anyway, causing the person to fall due to lack of stability rather than lack of equilibrium. The technique of Maek-Chagi #4 is a perfect example to illustrate this, just in case you couldn't think of one. BTW, I've seen this effect demonstrated. A master did maek-chagi #4 on a volunteer but *popped* the kick, basically just slapping the person's leg so as not to make them fall due to the knee giving out. They did get woozy though and had to sit down within a few seconds of getting kicked. This is the sort of stuff that most people can't appreciate about KSW, because they only learn the techniques and don't bother to learn about human physiology. Tsk, tsk.
In the second edit I made to post #4, I quoted the red KSW textbook (pub. 1987). I think it pertinent to mention that despite the rather detailed description for the technique execution, there ARE details that I learned that aren't evident in that prose. I'm referring to the placement of the knee on the biceps as a means of pinning the guy down. Rather than just bear all your weight onto the upper arm in order to pin it to the ground, I learned to nudge your kneecap (patella) into the same pressure point that's advocated in Maek-Chigi #3 (LU-3; chuhn boo; 천부; 天府). This has the effect of compressing the radial artery AND the radial nerve against the humerus, where these two structures are exposed between the deltoid and the biceps. As I stated before, the HYUL are used just as a means of indicating a particularly vulnerable area on the body, not that the acupoint itself is of any real significance WRT the meridian it's on or what that point might be used for in various medical treatments.
I just did a search on 목동맥 and came up with carotid artery. http://www.kmle.co.kr/search.php?Se...DictWordNet=YES&Druginfo=YES&HTMLWebHtdig=YES
Yes. Thank you, Jayhawk. Baroreceptors are indeed the mechanism I was referring to, and apparently are in the major arteries as well as in the larger veins (I never professed to be a medical wiz). And clearly yet another error in that textbook, since the english translation says to attack the VEIN ("wein" sic) in the neck, which would have to be the jugular, and the untranslated korean romanization ("Mok Dong Mak" sic) apparently translates to "carotid artery."
Does that mean Hohn Soo is a carotid artery strike? Also on the artery strikes/baroreceptors subject does the strike cause a physical rise/drop in blood pressure enough to cause this reaction or is it a perceived thing where the body thinks the blood pressure is rapidly changing.
I don't know how to explain it any better than I already did. When stepping on a garden hose, how far the water shoots from the sprinkler is a clear indication of the change in the water pressure; the greater the pressure, the farther the water will shoot out of the sprinkler. So yes, the strike actually changes the blood pressure in the vessels (even if only for a fraction of a second) depending on how forceful the blow. The perception that this erratic blood pressure is due to the heart being distressed is the anomaly. It really doesn't bother me that you didn't carefully read the post I made on the thread I started about the acupoints (post #55, to be exact). I'll just restate the pertinent stuff below. So a non-detailed answer to your question would be, yes. But note that the carotid artery can be attacked in other locations on the neck that would not affect the vagus nerve nor the jugular vein with the same impact (no pun intended) as using Hohn Soo. IMO striking this point is so devastating simply because it's directed at three major structures that alone would have similar results when compromised. Another thing I'd like to point out is that you can still manage to attack this point even if your opponent *turtles up* (i.e. shrugs his shoulders in an attempt to protect the neck). TURTLE UP is a term I borrowed from boxing and I use it during sparring to remind a student to sink his chin close to his sternum and shrug his shoulders slightly, mainly as a means of guarding against the whiplash effect of a strong blow to the chin, but it also negates any attack aimed at the throat (think maek-chigi #11). Admittedly, it does make success with a blow aimed at Hohn Soo more difficult, but not impossible.
