From Kutaki: I'm sorry tax reasons or not this just leaves a weird taste in my mouth. As if the cult of personality and religious behavior of some members werent bad enough. Now its almost...justified.
This is NOT going to help how people percieve this particular art......avoiding taxes?? wow. Gonna be interesting to watch!!
"I am committing tax fraud and want you to help. By the way, this you're all members of my religious organization. I am the head of the religion." If I were in Bujinkan this would be a good time to about face and double-time
I think this has as much to do with Japans inheritance laws as anything else. If he did not do something the Bujinkan would lose all assets when he passed or at least have to sell up nearly everything to cover the inheritance taxes.
On the plus side, you might be able to get special VISA's for coming to Japan to study something "religious" instead of just a tourist VISA...I'm not sure about what extension of time it is, but there is one I believe... On the downside, that's not going to help with the "cult" appearance of the Bujinkan... Interesting...
welll...I know that if you are officially baptized in a religion it is SUPPOSED to 'officially' remove you from the last religion you were in (but who tracks that?)....so maybe?
No big difference from Shorinji Kempo. It is registered as a religion in Japan as well. Quote from martial-arts-info.com "I’m a Shorinji Kenshi of 21 years standing, currently holding the rank of 3rd dan. I would just like to say that when you say “religion” in your brief explanation of Shorinji Kempo above, the English words “ethics” or “philosophy” would be better suited, as the concept of religion is so greatly different in Japan. " So, to be able to preserve Bujinkan, it may be a wise move to register it as a religion. Else Bujinkan would most probably loose hombu dojo the day soke passes away, since it's his property. Best regards
Legally avoiding taxes, nothing wrong with that...i do it myself. Bujinkan as a religion, well at least i can pull the 'it's against my religious beliefs" card now.
OMG! :bang: This will give hours of endless amusement to the trolls and anti-Bujinkaners out there. Talk about a red rag to a bull! :bang: The main question is... Will I be excommunicated for doing BJJ? The next question would be... Can I carry weapons around in public because my 'religion' says I should!
I wonder if as a "religion", we'll start getting taught the religious backgrounds to the Takamatsu-den arts and so on? Oh yes, one could argue that we get taught them by living example rather than by actual structured learning but you know what I mean. It would be kind of hard to prove that the Bujinkan is a valid religious entity without introducing the associated practices and doctrines such as those robes that Shorinji Kempo practitioners wear upon reaching a certain rank etc. Oh wait. I literally just remembered something! Let me dig around a second and..........here you go http://www001.upp.so-net.ne.jp/bujinkan/ I really honestly wondered why that statement was issued back in November. I really wondered what was behind it as it went against a lot of things I'd been taught. Suddenly I'm thinking that someone was laying the groundwork for this transition into "Bujinkan = religion" status. Of course that's just conjecture.........
I for one do not see Bujinkan turning into a religion. However, the martial arts we are studying are old and like many other similar systems are deeply rooted in japanese tradition. I believe Soke wants to assure it stays so, to some degree. If you havent noticed the kamidana, the constant reference to different religious ideas, the religious connections in some of the schools...Well, then I can understand this is a big step for you. Regards / Skuggvarg
So 3 things: 1. As it's been pointed out, it seems that 'religion' is not necessarily a 100% best one-for-one translation of the Japanese. 2. As it's been pointed out, Shorinji Kempo already does it 3. If this is a 'big problem' to anyone, they probably already have bigger problems with the Bujinkan. Are people seriously concerned with this? Do people seriously think that as soon as some legal paper is signed Sensei's going to change the nature of training?
I think there’s two issues with this. Lets deal with them in turn… Firstly the fact that Dr Hatsumi is going to register the Bujinkan as a religion. Now I have said again and again that’s the Bujinkan has cult like tendencies… [http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1289570&highlight=cult#post1289570 So when I wrote this I was saying that although I did not agree that the Bujinkan itself was a cult I believed that it certainly contained some cult like tendencies and that some unscrupelous person could in fact make a religion out of it. Its kind of prophetic of me (see bold above) that it is now becoming one as we now see Dr Hatsumi (Apparantly) registering his martial art as a religion. OK I can see how some might view certain part so of the teachings as being semi religious (IE moral codes) which as far as I am concerned is where the similarity ends. and I am absolutely amazed that after all the talk of how religion can be corrupted thats it is now being registered as one… After all didn’t Takamatsu say… I think Tax is the operative word here. Now before someone claims that the teaching of the Bujinkan could be a religion, let look at what a online dictionary gives a definition. http://dictionary.reference.com/ Now I know that’some people are going to argue and say that technically the Bujinkan is a religion but as one 15th dan put it http://www.ninjutsu.com/faq.shtml I can see some websites quickly changing their wording Returning to the list above I would say that only number 6 bears any relevance to what is done in this martial art, so as I say to call the Bujinkan a religion is stretching it a bit, or is the Bujinkan really turning into a cult as I have pointed out so many times when I have spoken about its cult like activities.
Continued due to not being able to post full post Which brings me nicely to the next point. As the original poster posted Hi All, Sensei has repeated some news at the beginning of the first classes this year, so I think it bears posting here as well. 1) Sensei is planning to build a new Honbu dojo in the next 3-4 years. He sees this as a type of Mecca for the Bujinkan. To avoid getting hit by taxes as much as possible, he would like it to be built with tax-deductable donations, so he would like the international Bujinkan community to donate funds for the new dojo. (Shiraishi Sensei was the first one to make a donation for the new dojo, to the tune of 500,000 yen. Sensei mentioned this specifically to the whole class at least twice.) The existing dojo will not be torn down any time soon, but will remain where it is for the next 3 to 4 years. 2) Sensei will be registering the Bujinkan as a religious organization (the term he used each time was "宗教法人" - shuukyou houjinn, for those who might wish to clarify) - again, for tax reasons. The first time I heard him say it I thought I must have heard wrong, and asked another Japanese-speaker sitting beside me for confirmation - he told me that I heard wrong, but Sensei announced it again last night at Ayase, and there was no mistake. He joked that we'd soon all be training with shaved heads (ha ha). This will probably come as a shock to some people, but there is no mistake about what he said. So, interesting times ahead for the Bujinkan. Sensei is always keeping us on our toes. 万変不驚 Shawn So reading the above it seems that the reason Dr Hatsumi is going to make the Bujinkan a religion is NOT because he believes it is a religion, but purely for tax evasion. I have said before Hatsumi Sensei is the biggest Budo Business man of all. Money is pouring into Noda city, with DVD sales, Book sales, training, grades, seminars etc etc. And yeh i bet he wants to attract the succesful element of society http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=764921&highlight=cult#post764921 Yep millions pouring into Noda City and now he want to evade paying tax on it. You know if this was anyone else in the ninjutsu world they would have been leveled by now by the Bujinkan students (Or should we say deacons, arch deacons, and bishops depending on their grade) but I guess theres going to be some excuses made for the reasons dr Hatsumi is doing this We shall see. You know I have been looking for a particular quote all morning. Who was it that’s said “We don’t need religion” Well you do if you want to evade tax Garth
Already, it seems there's a tiny bit more to this story being revealed. http://www.kutaki.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=44270#forumpost44270
Kouryuu posted Norman didnt you once post http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1289570&highlight=cult#post1289570 Looks like your about to get religion Norm Garth
I think that those of us who aren't that aware of japanese law - or the japanese definition of religion - should remain silent until we at least believe that we have a grasp of it. But this is how I understand this whole thing: Religion is a scary word for some people. But religion or not, why shouldn't an organisation like the Bujinkan enjoy some of the same benefits. I know that the teachings have helped me alot in my own spiritual development. The Sokes role is to insure the survival of the art, so as far as I understand this issue, this seems like a wise move. Calling the Bujinkan a religion dosen't change what it really is in any way - it is what it is. So I don't see why we should be afraid of the word "religion"? Because of the haters? Who cares about the haters...
