Just saw an ad in TKD Times for Sip Pal Gi (Korean Kung Fu) offering instruction and videos. Has anyone heard of the school, instructor or seen the videos? http://www.ltkfa.com/index.cfm?page=15
from what i know it's quite popular here in south america(as sipalki, and if memory serves, sometimes as sipalki-do). a lot of people seem to do it and AFAIK it's geared more towards self-defense than sport. i'll see what else i can scrounge up and post it tonight.
korean kf This is a korean version of northern mantis kf from what i remember. There waa quite a big club in Leighton Buzzard although i haven't heard much from/about them in awhile. powchoy
Any body know what Ship pal gi actualy translates to in Korean? When my first sifu retired from teaching I tried a few non Chinese arts before picking out another kung fu school. One of the places I tried was John C. Kim's Chung Moo Quan. They claimed to teach 8 martial arts as one. Among them was ship pal gi which in there school were a bunch of Korean forms that were done isometrically. I saw the first 5 or 6 being practised and learned the first one my self. A few years later I drove by the school and they had changed the name but still claimed to be teaching 8 martial arts as one. The list of arts that made up their style was almost the same but they had added Ba Gua and in order to make it fit into their 8 martial arts they had moved the ship pal gi down next to the 18 weapons of kung fu. So it said 18 weapons(ship pal gi). I always wondered how that worked and what happened to the hand forms they used to call ship pal gi?
Hello all, Thomas, since this is clearly described by the author as Kung Fu, maybe the post would be better served there (in the Kung Fu Forum) and not here, since it clearly has nothing to do with Hapkido.
I have been told the suh/seo family has a great deal of ship pal ki background which would clearly explain the kung fu looking influence in kuk sool and various hapkido systems that emulate kuk sool. It would also explain the claim of 24 weapons of kuk sool as 18 of them would be the ship pahl(korean for 18) i.e. 18 weapons of kung fu plus the 6 korean royal court weapons... so, Iron Ox, while I agree with you in principle, there may be HKD-SPK connection via KS just a thought
Hello all, Granted, there may be a connection - then the question might also be served in the KSW section... It still has nothing to do with Hapkido
Actually I mentally debated whether to put it here or in the Kung Fu section. I chose the Hapkido section because this is where most of the Korean Martial Arts people hang out - tends to collect a more diverse amount and type of KMAers than the KSW or TKD area. I'm not a mod here... if you think it needs to move, let a mod know your suggestion. Personally I'd rather have it here for the input of the crowd that usually hangs out in this forum.
Hello all, I'm not disagreeing with where you put it, just thought you might get more input from the Kung Fu guys that might have run across this. Sorry if the response came off terse.
ok, since i had karate today and school early tomorrow i couldn't do a very detailed search, but i found that the english and spanish wikis appear to contain different information on sipalki. i'm posting both, and i'll translate the spanish one tomorrow. also, youtube has a lot of videos, and i saw some, none of which i found particularly inspiring, and none of which looks like what little i know from NPM KF. the sipalki stuff in the vids there basically consists on possibly (very)exagerated pressure points against half-assed attacks(like a lunging side kick that stops at a full foot from the instructor's head). there IS a video of a sipalki guy sparring aTKD guy, but none of them are really going at it with intent, so it's kind of a moot point, but it still shows sipalki sparring(hte vid's called sipalki vs taekwondo).
Hi, Fish: You raised some good points. For myself I think the relationship between authentic Korean practices and modern constructions is one of those long-ignored issues in the KMA. In the past, infusions of material from other cultures has been allowed and often facilitated by the Korean culture. Commercial and rival intersts have seemed to slowed this process of late--- meaning in the last 50 years or so. In this way, for instance, Japanese sword can be brought into Korea along with nunchukas, Escrima and MMA and represented as "Korean" at the expense of ignoring established traditions of the past. One only needs to read the "historical" material on the website that Thomas (Morrison) has cited to know how twisted and misinformed people have become about these practices. In fact, it has become very fashionable for people in the Hapkido community to actually make things up and pass it off as "Korean", rather than learn and promote actual Korean material. BTW: I have to tip my hat to Thomas for putting the thread in the Hapkido area. Since SIP PAL KI is not a sport it needs to stay out of the TKD area. Nor is SIP PAL KI "Korean Kung Fu"---- not unless we want to go back to referring to TAEKWONDO as "Korean Karate". FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce
Hello all, From the site: "Traditional 5 Animals Northern Shaolin System (originally taught by Sifu Douglas Wong to Master Kenny Perez) and a rare Traditional Northern Shaolin Longfist Mantis system that is very prevalent in South Korea (also known as Sip Pal Gi)." That is what the people who created the site call it - so unless any of our "Google Researchers" actually do Ship Pal Ki - looks like the people who do the art trump anyone else... There again, some people think Hapkido has Chinese Kung Fu breathing forms and teach these as "authentic" Korean Tradition...:bang:
quick translation from the spanish wiki article on sipalki: sibpalki, maening eighteen technique method, refers to the joseon dynasty martial arts(1392-1910). during his reign, king Sungjo (1567-1608), after the japanese invasions, ordered Han Kyo, one of his military officers, to consult the ming dynasty soldiers who fought the japanese. Han Kyo compiled six fight methods, documented in the Muye Jebo in 1599. their origins are in a manual called Jixiao Xinshu ; en Coreano, Ki Hyo Shin Su; en Japonés, Ki Ko Shin Sho; "new book of effective methods") written by chinese general Qi Jiguang. in 1749, during the reign of king Youngjo (1724-1776), prince Sado added twelve additional styles(among them 4 kenjutsu schools), adding up to 18 methods. these were documented in the Muye Shinbo in 1759. that originated the term Sibpalki. in 1790 six more methods were added, compiled in the Muyedobotongji. the origin of Kwon Bup (C. Quan Fa; J. Kenpo, literally "boxing method") is in the aforementioned Jixiao Xinshu. the style could be Taizu Chang Quan.[4] [5] the author considers the style was of little uyse for large scale battles, but useful for training flexibility, reflexes, hand speed, jump capacity, etc. General Qi mentions classic chinese boxing methods like monkey boxing, eagle claw and shaolin staff. currently a group of people lead by master kim, young ho, set itself to revive the korean ma documented in the Muyedobotongji. they demonstrate in Suwon in Hwaseong fortress. this project is backer by the ministry of culture and tourism and the korean cultural center federation. GM Im, Dong Kyu founded Gyung Dang, and org that revives the Muyedobotongji methods without equestrian techniques. Im claims to have a copy of Muyedobotongji from when he was a political prisioner in the 70s. his demo team travels around the world since 1994. these are the 24 techniques done by this group: Ssang Soo Do - Long Sword - Ye Do - Short Sword - Wae Gum - Japanese Sword - Toyuryu - Japanese Sword - Woonkwangryu - Japanese Sword - Chunyuryu - Japanese Sword - Ryupiryu - Japanese Sword - Je Dok Gum - Admiral's Sword - Bon Kuk Gum - Shilla Sword - Ssang Gum - Twin Swords - Ki Chang - Flag Spear - Dang Pa - Triple Bladed Spear - Wol Do - Crescent Sword - Hyup Do - Spear Sword - Dung Pae - Shield Art - Kwon Bup - Fist Fighting Method - Kon Bang - Long Stick - Kon Bang Kyojun - Stick Combat - Wae Gum Kyojun - Sword Combat - Sorim Kon Bang - Shaolin Long Stick - another sibpalki representative is Kwang Suk Kim (1936). born during japanese occupation, Kim says he was raised in a taoist community in the korean mountains, where he trained Sibpalki, eastern medicine and Qi Gong. he currently has 4 books published about KMA. in Argentina we find GM Yoo Soo Nam (유수남). master Yoo claims to be heir to a style called ion bi ryu, and claims to trace it's origins 4300 years into korean past. his version of the story tells that until 1552 there where 56 fight methods in korea, resumed to 18 by the emperor. this version does not add up with what is documented in the muyedobotongji, since the term sibpalki was first used by prince sado in the muye shinbo. besides, during that period, korea had kings, not emperors. he also claims 9th dan by the international sipalki league in 1966, integrated by his father's students and family members. the bases of this style are completely different to those documented in ancient korean military manuals since it has many similitudes with modern styles derived from hapkido, like hwa rang do and kuk sool won and none with the chinese fight methods sipalki is based upon.
Good stuff, Fish: Unfortunately I can only speak of SIP PAL KI from the standpoint of scholarship as I am not a recognized practitioner. Quite recently however, I had the honor of making the acquaintance of Dr. CHOI Bok Kyu a renowned MA scholar and student of KIM Kwang Suk, who is himself the student of of one GM Im (not the originator of the KYONG DANG). Both Dr. Choi and his wife, Soo are passionate proponents and practitioners of SIP PAL KI and have done a great service on BULLSHIDO and HAPKIDO FORUM in correcting misconceptions regarding SIP PAL KI. Two great misconceptions are long lived and constantly in need of attention. The first misconception is that the SIP PAL KI of China is the same as that of Korea. In fact this is not the case. While the "18 Methods" of China are a rather fluid institution spanning many generations and encompassing various items and practices at various times, the Korean SIP PAL GI traces specificly to Prince Sejo and his publication of the MU YE JEBO in 1759. This manual was later subsumed under the MU YE TOBO TONG JI and was embellished with horse-mounted techniques to be published in 1795. The second misconception is that Korean SIP PAL KI is synonymous with "Kung Fu" (whatever the heck THAT is). There is considerable Chinese method and material in the Korean SIP PAL KI but it has been turned and shaped to Korean purposes. So, for instance, while the KWON BOP or "Fist Method" material of the MYTBTJ is drawn from General QI Ji-guang's famous Boxing Canon, the material has been reworked to serve the goals of the Korean culture---- a subject which is worthy of a separate thread. As a member of the YON MU KWAN under MYUNG Kwang Sik I have an obligation to do research into the Korean traditions, understand them, promote and perpetuate them. At one time it was very important to have other Hapkido practitioners participate in the this effort. My own experience was that members of the Hapkido community are far more invested in bickering and have fun at other people's expense than in any serious pursuit of the Hapkido arts. My decision was to simply forge ahead with my research and publish my findings for whatever good people might find in them. Currently I have quite a bit of material on my website and have published a number of video clips on YAHOO Video for people to view. The general idea is to get this information out into the public domain for people to get a taste of what Korean martial traditions are about. If you are wondering why I am babbling on like this, its to say that the SIP PAL KI people are very serious about their research and deeply invested in these practices. It is a disservice to confuse these folks with the wannabees in Argentina and in Spain. Instead, I hope to draw on the SIP PAL KI material such that when I am, say, presenting Korean Staff material, at least it will be authentic KOREAN staff and not some Okinawan material that is being misrepresented. No real point; just tossing a few cents into the pot, as it were.... Best Wishes, Bruce
cool. i'd like to see some of the real sipalki stuff, if you don't mind, since the vids i saw on youtube(mostly from the argentinian schools) really put me off from it. it's good to know that it is not "real" sipalki.
This Martial Art has absolutely nothing to do with HKD. Maybe Kuk Sool but not HKD. I think the thread should be moved.
Yes..... well, I suppose that all comes back to how one defines Hapkido..... and since one person's definition of the Hapkido art is just as valid as anyone elses...... I suspect talking about SIP PAL KI on a Hapkido thread would not be all that different from, say, talking about, oh, say, Brazilian Ju-jutsu, yes? Or maybe Mixed Martial Arts....... or NHB...... or ???? Bruce
agreed ..... except there is that guy .....that hapkido guy teaching SPK based stuff...........whats his name...........hapkido grandmasterrrrrrr..uh.......Seo yeah thats it---- seo Hapkido Grandmaster Seo. No one seems to have any quarrel about his hapkido (which used to be Kuk Sool or was it kuk sool hapkido). and Kuk Sool has CLEAR SPK roots (which hkd does not). so if he is to be a legitimate hkd GM that everyone recognizes, then SPK gets grandfathered in as part of it by default (sorry Iron Ox I know you are trying to keep HKD real HKD but well----- Good luck dude ). if so then it has no definition ---if anything it goes to the ks thread,if even that, but if so then so should hmjhkd? right?
