Hello. I'm new here and have a question. At one point I read in a book by one Donn F. Draeger titled Ninjutsu, the art of invisibility. And I believe it was in this book that I saw part that mentioned while he was training Ninjutsu in Japan, his teacher informed his students for this one part of their training to at any point sneak up on him while he's in a casual situation and attack him with the intent to kill. However, each time one of his students attempted this he somehow "sensed" the impending danger and was able to react by rolling away or countering the attack in some manner. Now my question is what is this sense called? The book gave a name for it, but I forgot what it was. Or if anyone knows what I'm talking about and can give me some form of information I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you!
Lmao, not quite. The sense I'm thinking of is gained through years of training and experience. It isn't genetic.
First off Don Draeger from all accounts was a talented Budoka, however he was less that an authority on anything Ninjutsu related. I have that book and was not impressed with it at all. As for the sense you are talking of, I think you will find it is called Sakki. I am not certain if that is what he called it in his book though as it was to long ago that I read it.
Actually..I would suggest that Donn Draeger probably knew more about Ninjutsu than a majority of those currently practising Ninpo both in the west and Japan through his own school...Shinto Ryu.. While it could be guessed that he knew slightly less about Hatsumi's Ninpo, a few of his close friends were training there at the time when it was kicking off (Late 70's) and would possibly be in a good enough position to comment on what they had seen to him... As for the book, I would agree that much of it was based on legend and the myths that went along with those legends...But the statement that Donn Draeger was no authority on Ninjutsu needed to be corrected.. I wouldn't buy the book..But the writer is no less an authority on the subject.. Regards.
Well maybe you should go and Ask Hatsumi about what Don Draeger himself had to say to Hatsumi about his (Don's) knowledge on the subject and find out a little more about the Bujinkan's knowledge of Katori .
There's a shihan here in Japan who has a picture of Mr. Draeger on his dojo wall. He thinks very highly of him. It's amusing how we speculate who knew what/whom/and when.
It's interesting what people will say to muddy the water. What densho certain people have in their personal collection does not equate to formal training in another koryu.
:topic: So "Donn F. Draeger" teacher in japan was spideman? :topic: I've seen this kind of thing on Mind, Body etc. Was a bit suspicious.
Eh, even if the science behind it hasn't been ironed out, Sakki is pretty well founded. See Rupert Sheldrake's "The Sense of Being Stared At" for a technical discussion of the associated phenomena. First hand I don't have even a remedial grasp of it, but I know that such stuff at least exists. A couple of classes back we did a circle exercise where each of us around the circle had a hanbo and one in the middle had a shoge. Though I never trusted it enough to turn around, I'm quite sure that I felt something before being hit It's not mystical, it's just awareness. Some people have just refined it to a higher level than others.
Knowing that you won't post again today in all likelihood Yeah i think the whole hyper awareness kind of thing is fine, and we've all had the sensation that someone was looking at us and it's been true. But then we've all had the sensation that someone was looking at us and it be false. In your case, you know you're about to be hit with a Hanbo, so surely you should be feeling someone looking at you! (as well as possibly hearing them?)
Yes your water seems very muddy indeed ! If your talking about mine or most other people, to gain anything from a densho of a koryu I would quite agree with you. How ever you are talking about someone who is a Native, who has the abilty to read between the lines and to apply his understanding of Japanese Martial arts far beyond just meer techniques.
I think this may refer to Sakkijutsu , which has been translated the art of killing intent but I do seem to remeber Hatsumi sensei saying it should be more thought of as the art of perceiving the intent. The ability is formaly tested in both the Genbukan and Bujinkan. In the Bujinkan it is commonly referred to as the 'sakki test'. It is said to have been mentioned in the Togakure ryu Happo Hiken scroll (I remember reading this in Paul Richardsons history book, although I think this was sourced from either Tetsuzan or Bujin magazines). The person taking the test kneels down whilst the examiner stands behind with a fukuro shinai,without warning the examiner cuts down at the persons head and the person must perceive this 'killing intent' and move/roll out the way. From my own experience it wasn't a concious thing , rather that one moment I was kneeling there , the next I had rolled to the side and was looking up with a rather bemused look on my face. Hope that helps
Hi Ubogin405 I have myself have several of the late Mr. Draeger's books, and have found them to be very good and well researched. I think we must bear in mind that at the time Mr. Draeger wrote his book on Ninpo, it was only just beginning to come to light in the west, and was perhaps still not thought of as a serious martial art in Japan. The feeling you are referring to is known as Sakki, Killing intention, and the detection/avoidance is Sakki jutsu, the art of perceiving the killing intention. It is used in the Bujinkan as the test for 5th Dan. The test is taken by Hatsumi Sensei or one of the 15th Dan's under Hatsumi Sensei's supervision. It is not something you can be taught, rather it develops through your training. Hope this helps answers your question. Dave. Bujinkan Sevenoaks Dojo.
Would disagree. We begin teaching this at white belt in Hoshinjutsu as it is one of the most useful skils you can have in avoiding combat. There are kata in Gyokko Ryu, which start with your back to a knife wielding attacker too.... Sensing sakki is a natural animal ability and something the average deer does a half dozen times a day. It is a sense we all have but which has atrophied through living in nice comfy houses and not being chased by tigers any more. Native cultires like the Bushmen are reputed to still have it and use it. I'm sure everyonge has experienced it to some extent; a tingling down the spine, shivvers, and those "lucky" moments of ducking or dodging at juuuust the right moment. Learning to feel it can be compared to a wine taster sensitising their palette through years of practice; some are better than others and you don't usually get it straight away. There are levels at which one can feel intent. At a basic level, some get a tingling, or pressure on the skin, heat, cold, etc, some even get sound. It is learning how your own body responds to threat and leaning to recognise those signals. They are generally very subtle and everyone tends to be different. It is also reliant on the uke for sakki exercises being able to project or hide their intent. Most people just don't get that "mad" without a reason, lol. At the level of the bujinkan godan test, the test-ee is learning to overcome the programming of the neocortex, tap into the subconscious mind and the deep instinctive reactions "hardwired" into the hindbrain (snake or reptile brain). Google it, there are some interesting psychology papers out there on this. Happy dodging..... Jen.
Has Hatsumi ever studied the Shinto Ryu formally? (Ideally for several years...)If your answer is no then whatever else your answer is, it is obsolete.. The densho were not designed to fool gaijin housewives with no martial arts knowledge or Japanese ability..They were designed to be unreadable to Japanese martial artists of the time..(If they were understandable it would be because the person reading them had TRAINED for several years in them and understood the things referred to fluently)... Why do you think that the densho would be anymore readable by a modern Japanese martial artist? The densho are usually (Not always) written in order to prevent precisely that type of person from understanding what they taught.. Muddy waters indeed...But at least one of us has a lotus growing in them.. Regards..
Except the fact you left out of the knowledge and ability of the original owner being passdown the line to the present Never mind you guys will get over your smarting about this, maybe in another 100 years or so LOL
Ummm.... "Smarting" about what? Was there a few posts that I missed that should have been read to understand what you mean by that? I guess I should wait for a point to become coherant.. Until then, all the best.
