Interesting message from Meik Skoss

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by kuoshu, Mar 8, 2007.

  1. kuoshu

    kuoshu Valued Member

    For many years, students of the ninja X-kans have managed to bury their heads in the sand about the truth behind the opinions of koryu.com.

    They have tried to rationalise the now-famous article about ninjutsu by saying that "they just mean that we don't train in the koryu way, not that the schools are fake."

    this got repeated so much that eventually people started to believe this.

    But now here is an interesting message from Meik Skoss that clarifies this. The link is here:

    http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=224254&postcount=17

    His reply to a question was the following:

    So there ya go. It is NOT merely a case of the training and organisation methods not being koryu enough.

    People, just accept it: Takamatsu made up Togakure Ryu and Gyokko and Koto and most of the others.

    Kukishin Ryu and Takagi Ryu are the only two schools in that whole system that are worth anything. Tell Mr Hatsumi he needs to work on those more and to teach them fully, as proper schools.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2007
  2. Lord Spooky

    Lord Spooky Banned Banned

    At the end of the day it is his opinion and nothing more. I'm not going to lose sleep over it and I bet he isn't, you on the other hand must have real problems drifting off at night as you seem to have some real issues with all this. Especially considering you don't train in the Bujinkan now.

    Come back with something other than Mr Skoss thinks you lot suck !



    EDIT: Ignore my previous comment about the link being wrong! God knows what my browser was doing :bang: :bang:
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2007
  3. kuoshu

    kuoshu Valued Member

    Sorry about the offensive word in my initial post. I have edited it out. But it is still present in Mr Skoss's post.

    By the way, Mr Skoss isn't saying that "you suck". He's not saying that the techniques don't work. Just that the ninja history and lineage are false.
     
  4. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned

    Thats ok then, i thought for a moment we had to take you and Skoss seriously.......... :rolleyes:
     
  5. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned


    And your evidence backing this up is coming when??? :confused:
     
  6. Lord Spooky

    Lord Spooky Banned Banned

    Which is his opinion and nothing more. He hasn't provided any proof has he?

    Yes he is a well respected member of the Koryu community but is he an academic researcher ? Has he researched the Ryu of the Bujinkan to any depth?


    The only person who can sort this out once and for all is Soke. If he doesn't feel the need to do so then that is his prerogative.

    You crusading across the net isn't going to change anything all it will do is start up the same old arguments that will go round in circles because you don't have anything to say Takamatsu Sensei did make all these up. The only person who could provide solid evidence isn’t likely to be posting on here is he?

    If you really are that concerned than go to the source. Learn to read Japanese do the research on the art's home soil. You will get nothing from the net at the end of the day.

    If this bothers you as much as it seems, going on the fact that you only ever post stuff of this nature, then actually commit to finding out as much as you can get some solid evidence.

    If you are not really bothered then continue to pull stuff from online and go door knocking round the forums.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2007
  7. Cuchulain

    Cuchulain Valued Member

    Isn't trolling specifically against the rules here?
     
  8. Lord Spooky

    Lord Spooky Banned Banned

    Yes it is, I'm just cleaning Trollsbane +4, I'll no doubt need it soon!
     
  9. kuoshu

    kuoshu Valued Member

    Funny how anyone who asks questions that are too pointed is "trolling".

    Is there any more proof for Takamatsu learning Togakure Ryu than there is for Ronald Duncan learning Koga Ryu?
     
  10. Lord Spooky

    Lord Spooky Banned Banned

    Kuoshu go back across your posts and provide back up!

    Otherwise put IMO before the stuff you are trying to portray as fact!

    Oh and for the record you are trolling!

    You can still ask legitimate questions and troll! It's the intent behind the question not the questions themselves
     
  11. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned

    we only need to look at your posting history to see you lack any depth as a man, really, you are not looking for a conversation, just a biatch fest.

    yes.
     
  12. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned

    please dont ban him yet, we have'nt had a toy to play with for ages.
     
  13. Cuchulain

    Cuchulain Valued Member

    Funny how your original post doesn't contain a single question. If you have anything resembling a coherent argument to support your hypothesis, I'd be mildly curious to read it. But my experience teaches me that you probably don't - you've just hitched yourself to some conspiracy theory.
     
  14. Lord Spooky

    Lord Spooky Banned Banned


    This is all he does. I don't think he's ever actually researched the subject properly he just relies on things he's found online :rolleyes:

    Kuoshu approach this in the correct manner and you will find that the members here will be more than willing to discuss these issues.
     
  15. Lord Spooky

    Lord Spooky Banned Banned


    This is just sooo funny.
     
  16. Lord Spooky

    Lord Spooky Banned Banned

    Kuoshu are you Koshu over on budoseek?
     
  17. bencole

    bencole Valued Member

    Clarifies what? The post was about someone who was interested in iai looking into teachers.

    Meik Skoss clearly does not think that Hatsumi-sensei is as good at teaching iai as those who specialize in iai. He recommended some teachers in Michigan who he considers better than Mr. Bessler.

    I recommend teachers all the time, based upon my subjective assessment of their skills..... How is that different?

    How you got from Mr. Skoss' recommendation of instructors he thinks are skilled at iai to "Takamatsu made up Togakure Ryu and Gyokko and Koto and most of the others." simply bewilders me. :bang:

    Care to explain how you made that leap?

    -ben
     
  18. bujingodai

    bujingodai Retired Supporter

    I think it is pretty clear what he thinks honestly. If it was merely about Iai he'd say it, instead of using the term Ninjacompoops right.
    He said anyone with connection to Hatsumi or other Ninja orgs I'd gather need to get their heads examined.

    But to play devils advocate here, the comment prior mentioned that it is Hastumis perogative whether he cares to deal with the issue of lineage credibility. Then that should apply to anyone claiming the same thing, being as we are all equal human beings with choice. Should it not, or does Hatsumi rank higher in life than someone who claims the same thing but doesn't have the numbers to back it up?

    Again, this is a devils advocate. I just thought that sentence a little odd.
     
  19. bencole

    bencole Valued Member

    It was a discussion regarding whether a student of Machida-sensei (i.e., Robert Bessler) was the best source of information about iai. Mr. Skoss followed the link and saw the description of Mr. Bessler's training, which included mention of his belonging to the Bujinkan. Mr. Skoss has every right to think what he may about the Bujinkan. It still doesn't explain the logical leap that the poster made.

    Hatsumi-sensei can prove *WITHOUT DOUBT* that he trained with his teacher, To*****ugu Takamatsu. Ronald Duncan (Ashida Kim, etc.) cannot even prove that his teacher existed, let alone that he received any training in anything.

    There is no "devil's advocate" here.

    -ben
     
  20. bujingodai

    bujingodai Retired Supporter

    I was making reference to the point that it is his perogative to say what he wants to say. When it is dug and drawn out of anyone else.
    I would say that there are some that doubt some lineage. There have been statements made in the past that have been somewhat debunked.
    Trying to make discussion. Not arguement.
     

Share This Page