Hey all Kung Fu practioners. Kung Fu in combat sports is debated, cause many people say that "their Kung Fu is too deadly". But I know that's rubbish. Back here in Illinois, there's even a guy who while teaches Kung Fu, he still adapts it to fight in San Shou, Kickboxing and MMA. I was wondering how many (if any) of ya'll have competed in something like that. Be it San Shou, Kickboxing, MMA, or Grappling. Has anyone here competed? And how did you do?
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-5978331942753963933&q=nolan+lee This is a guy from www.extremekungfu.com in his MMA debut. (bit of a boring fight)
Haha! One of my friends trained at that school. It used to be more a Wushu school that did some San Shou, though apparently they're moving more towards San Shou/MMA in their training focus. I got to visit once, it's a good place. For traditional CMA in MMA, I know of two names: Sami Berik (who does Wing Chun and Taiji alongside his MMA) and Jason Delucia (who does some type of Kung Fu, Aikido, and Voodoo). For other combat sports - well, from what I understand, most people who do San Shou come from some type of CMA background. I think the key to watching CMA in combat sports is to not expect it to look like a kung fu movie. Maybe someday I'll be able to effectively use my sorely out of practice wushu in a sporting match. Knockout by butterfly kick, wah!
You cannot prove anything in the ring. Too restricted... If you wanna fight go and challenge a kung fu si fu to a fight. Then beg for mercy after 2 seconds. PS: MMA, kickbox, wrestlintg etc. will not help you. You will die quickly and extremly painfully.
My name is Sifu, Kyle Weygandt. I have studied and then taught Martial Arts all of my life. I fought from the mid 70's to 1981. Here is my Bio... *70's*Western Boxing/ Kick Boxing *75-81 Tae-Kwon-Do/ Shoto-Kan *78 to 84*Chin-Na, Judo, Greco-Roman,Gound Combative, many instructors. *79 to 87 Wing Chun Instructor Master David Grago *92 to 97 Earned Sifu level under Master Eddie Chong in Yip Man Wing Chun, Pan Nam Yong Chun (Wing Chun)Bak-Mei. *93 to present Extensive training in Shoot Wrestling and BJJ flavor techniques. Many instructors and seminars *97 to present Stick /Knife Concepts, many instructors *94 to present Formulated the "Kew-Do" system taught to Law Enforcement and Corrections Personnel. As a Martial Artist and Police Officer, I have witnessed many fighting variables as well as touched hands with many effective Martial Artists over the past 26+ years. I do not believe in the (Oh watch out, this guy's Chi or Kung-Fu is so deadly he cannot get in the ring, he may kill someone with his death touch. I say this not in disrespect of anyone or any system but as a logical outlook on the science of fighting. My school from 1994 to 2001 fought full contact many times with minimal to light gear as well as implemented full range fighting (Ground Combatives) MMA. In my opinion, any person who does not prepare physically, (Cardio, Anerobic/weight training, flexibility, Nutrition,etc.) and Mutli-Ranges and cross train is at a disadvantage. My Foundation is Boxing and Wing Chun... I would be less of a fighter without implementing the other arts mentioned above...(IMO). Enough ranting from an old man... Kew-Do Sifu, Kyle Weygandt East Wind Shaolin Boxing Academy
That's of course why militaries have been using sport testing for years, no check that, millennium, to test fighting skill. Oh, and btw, that includes various forms of the Chinese Military. All that said, I still content that by and large, there will never be a successful Chinese Martial Artist in Sport Fighting. The main problem for that is that individual will get complaints from all sides that their technique doesn't look Chinese enough. In the mean time, don't forget about Cung Le. Another great competitor -- an someone who has managed to pull off scissors take downs in the ring. - Matt
OK, so sport's fighting was made for fun. Combat isn't funn. It's bloody and people get hurt. It's seroius stuf. You can't prove yourself a martial artist in the ring. You can only prove yourself with devotion to practice. Oh, and one more thing, if you have an ego problem and wanna make it better don't do it in the ring. It's stupid. If you feel weak - train, that's the way to become stronger. Not by going to some stupid fight with a guy who has 2 brain cells, and is restricted to with "don't do this or that" crap. Face reality. The ring is the wrong place to face reality. Face it in the world. Real world. With real people. With NO rules.
Wrong. To prove yourself you need to test yourself. And, outside of military or law enforcement service, competition provides one of the best testing rubric out there. Plain and simple. That's why it's used by the military. See, the thing about ego is this: the best way to rid one's self of it is to honestly test yourself. There's a great saying, if you're hitting the target every time, then you're probably too close. The folks that I know that realistically get out there and really test under competitive conditions, tend to not have big egos. Why? Because they get beat. And the more you get beat, the more you understand that you're not unstoppable. Not surprisingly, the people I've encountered with the biggest egos are those who either don't test or only take fights that they are sure they can win. I wrote the following a little while ago. It fits here as well: This is ideas is an incredible fallacy and needs to be addressed. There are rules in a street fight. Have you ever maimed or killed anyone? Broken multiple bones on someone? Beat their head into the pavement until you cracked a skull? Permanently blinded an individual? Stabbed or clubbed someone? Crushed a trachea? Employed Dim Mak or other crippling chin na attacks? I'm guessing probably not. Why? If there are no rules in a streetfight, all of that would be allowed (and perhaps encouraged). The reason you haven't done most of that is because there are legal rules that must be followed and there are concepts of acceptable force. The fact is, the unspoken rules of the average streetfight are not all that more severe than any modern MMA comp. Suck it up folks, it's true. Is there the possibility of deadly escalation? Yes. Multiple attackers, lava, weapons, you name it is there. But by and large, most people don't encounter it. And those that do typically don't know how bad the situation is until they're really in it or the weapon has already been deployed. And more so, what your discussing there is no longer a fight, it's self defense (and there really is a difference between those two). Which leads me to the assertion that somehow competition fighting is a dead end is ridiculous. The chances are you're actually going to get a higher skilled competitor than the person you're rolling on the street. Which means that your skills will really be tested. Further, (provided you win) you'll get multiple fights within the same day, which means your stamina (and you) will be put to the test against multiple inputs, body types, and skill sets. In other words, you'll actually have to consistently perform against trained fighters, not people in various states of inebriation. And as is often cited if you can get the lock, you can get the break. And if you can KO someone in the ring, you know that you can sucker punch their lights on in the street. Hell if you dodge expected punches from the (semi)pros, then there's no problem with ducking the drunken swing. All of this already echoes what Kyle posted a little bit above. Great post btw. - Matt
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*claps* Matt I could not have said it better myself. Great explanation. See, mr. stonedog, competition (the right competition such as MMA, San Shou, ect) is good for testing your skills, so that when you are actually attacked on "teh street" you will be able to keep calm, and use what you've learned properly.
I agree with Matt as well, I know that many of the law enforcement and all range trainings I have attended as well as the experiences I have had have made me a better Martial Artist. The other side of the coin is Martial Arts and the concept of fighting should also be applied to intercept individuals therapeutically as well. Do you always have to poke someones eye out? Is your art so deadly, it can only be used to Kill? A true Martial artist also knows how to control opponents. As a Police Officer, I have to use the least amount of force possible to bring assailants under control. I can't choke them out, poke out their eyes, break legs, etc... Yes if the suspect fights me and pushes the envelope I can raise the bar even to using lethal force. The point I'm trying to make is I believe a martial artist can learn a lot in cross training, ring, tournament, MMA, etc. I think the ones that fail to recogonize the impotance of this realm are the insecure wanna-bes and their innability to use their art in a real scenario because they are paper tigers and only play forms......IMO. Kew-Do
Also very well said Kew Do. Martial arts are not about killing, they're about learning how to fight, and making yourself stronger physically, mentally, and sometimes spiritually. All these "I'm too deadly for the street" guys really annoy me, because they are liars and try to make themselves out to be deadly, deadly practioners. Put a champion San Shou/MuayThai/MMA fighter in front of anybody who says they're too deadly for the ring, and 9 outta 10 times, the deadly practioner will be beaten severley. Also as you said, you can't always just start breaking bones, or gouging eyes. Like I'm a student. If someone started a fight with me at school, no way would I start gouging eyes, or go for throat strikes, or even break their bones. I would try to defend myself, and that is it. Anymore and legal problems would happen. Any good martial artist can control him or herself in a fight.
You are a bunchof guys who love to fight and go to the ring. That atitude will get you beaten up. And I did have a real life situtation where a guy atacked me with a knife, and I broke his right hand, and knee + hit him a few times on the face. I sat my self down, called the police, and waited. The judge considered it self-defence. It's a good thing I didn't follow any rulles or I wood be dead. Think about reality in the Balkans where I come from. Think about the risk going out in the night with your firends, when the whole town is full of gangsters and wisw-guys looking for trouble. I don't have time for sports! This is my reality, my life. You live or die. I was attacked the other day by a junkie while croosing the street on my way to the university. Think... No one will atack you here one on one. The usual ratio is 1 on 3-5. Or one on one, but he has a weapon. I got beat up a few times, true. I was lucky to be alive. Here your ego doesn't exist, if it does, somebody caps your ass. Think... You must fight here to survive, not to go and get a medal in the ring. Yust think...
Everyone else has refuted your other points briliiantly already, so I'll just address this part. I think it's ironic that you're preaching about ego while you're looking down on sport martial artists and claiming they have ego problems or are stupid. Those who live in glass houses shouldn't thow stones dude.
Ok stondedog you have gone from mildly amusing to annoying.... I may like to fight in the ring, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna get beat outside of it. Since I have access to practioners of different styles, we all spar MMA-esque against each other to provide not only a good workout, but to make sure how much power we can put into hits and controlling ourselves. I have been attacked outside of "the ring" as you like to call it. Only about 4 times I've been attacked, and each time, I came away with no or limited scratches, while the other guy knew not to pick anymore fights. Why so well? Is it because I'm d3@ly like you? No. Is it cause I'm some killer master? No. It's because of sparring "for the ring". I was able to keep calm, and not get too much adreniline going, and use the right techniques. If I didn't spar as much as I did, I'd probably would have got beaten. Stonedog, you sound like a big time joke by the way you present yourself. Also you sound like a preteen boy trying to sound intellegent after watching an old Kung Fu movie. Go find an MMA/SanShou/MuayThai gym in your area and challenge a random student. You'll get hurt, then possibly understand what we are saying.
Stone, First of all, I did differentiate fighting from self defense. There are huge differences. And if someone is bringing deadly force, the law is quite clear that you can return deadly force, up to a certain point. This being the internet, I take every "true story" about how posters have successfully defended against knives, guns, multiple attackers, etc with a grain of salt. Especially considering the ridiculously high number of teenagers who have made that claim here. If what you are saying about living in the Balkans is true, then I'm sorry that you are surrounded by such violence. Quite frankly, if you're being attacked with weapons and multiple people on a regular basis, then I suggest that you move straight over to the Filipino Martial Arts which are specifically designed to account for both of those factors (though I suggest you avoid the Dog Brothers since their brand of testing is counter to your closely held ideologies). As far as ego, all you've done since you go here is rant and rave about how kung fu is better than everything and people who participate in sport testing are wasting their time. So, no, I really don't think you ego is particularly in check son, despite your claims to the otherwise. Good luck not getting a "cap in your ass." - Matt
sorry if this bends the toc but i have to say stonedog you suck!!!! get off the sofa/milk crate away from the tv/washing machine/whatever you are watching and get real son!
