Ok.. so I do Wing Tsun for 2years now. Today at school one guy that does boxing came up and wanted to do some sparring with me.. well I agreed, but the thing is when we sparred, i couldnt do anything b'cause hes moving all the time and at the same time throwing punches, i couldnt get in contact. And got hit eventually.. could anyone who practices WT reply? what do u do? I know maybe I need experience but i could use some help.
get up on your toes and move ,forget wt footwork it sucks,dragging your leg behind you like a zombie haha square stance up on the the balls of your feet and use darting penetrating steps to take you in and out of his range,then once youve landed one or two shots close him right down and work from the range you should be comfortable with, short range good luck
Cracks me up when people say wing chun footwork sucks. If you try to move around in wing chun footwork it means you've become a slave to the system, simple as that. I've said it before: wing chun is not a fighting system, it's rpinciples for improving your fighting. It's not for walking around in, it's for when you're in contact. I've sparred fullcontact Thai and boxers many many times in my shooto classes. There's no prob with wing chun footwork if you use it when you have contact or on odd occasions when it will give you the right timing and opportunity to get into the contact you want. For all I care you can ballet dance if you think it does you any good, and then when you have the contact you can use the wc footowrk to your advantage. BTW, its pointless fighting boxers with wing chun and big boxing gloves... the wing chun lead punch is not as strong as the boxing one and with boxing gloves the penetrative dynamic is anything but: it just becomes a push. If you get in on the inside youcan keep pushing him back by lead punching ('jabbing') his face, but sooner or later he'll work his way round off his back foot adnn nail you with a hook. It7s only a good exercise in that it does teach you exctly when to abandon your wc footwork and when you should use it. The only other useful thing you can get out of it is practicing slipping the jab and parrying, both of which should be in your wc anyway. Fighting thai is much more a useful, esp with MMA gloves. Sorry bout typos. mad hurry.
I used to kickbox and was fairly proficient in boxing. Anyhow, about 10 years ago I had the pleasure of sparing a WC guy and had a helluva time getting in a hit. He would never attack, he would wait for me, I'd initiate and before I knew it he was so close to me that I could do nothing but throw hooks, which he would just lay down a stream of straight punches as soon as I brought my arm around to hook him. I'll pontificate here and suggest maybe you should try and control the distance a bit more in not fighting at his (boxing) distance. Maybe when he closes, you close also, that may throw his game off a bit but just be cautious of feints. He could lure you into setup if you commit too much. I've only been doing WC myself for three months now, so I couldn't offer you any advice from the WC side of things.
My friend, welcome to reality. WC’s primary weakness is that it is completely ineffective against any other style OTHER than WC itself. Of course its concepts and theories are good when combined with other martial arts. But as a singular, primary Fist, it’s nearly useless. Obviously they are going to be a good bunch of people on here that’ll give you justified excuses, whine and try to tell you otherwise (against my reply, no doubt). But you’re most likely better off taking up boxing and then some other CMA simultaneously. Really, WC’s best assets are its parrying techniques (which also exist in Boxing just as well), but not much else. If you want to stick to CMAs alone, then maybe Sanda complemented with Baji would fair better. But believe me, contrary to stagnant belief, WC will do little else other than help you get KTFO’ed. Of course there is the obvious variable of “It’s the man that makes the style, not the style that makes the man”. However, if you’re able to choose between a Ginsu knife or a butter knife for carving, which would you prefer?
im going for this option too. WC is just far too awkward to apply. Boxing will be much more applicable to fighting.
Eh... I've known a guy (my cousin, as it were) who did Wing Chun and Tae kwon do (another whipping boy of the martial arts), and he hit HARD. Fought in a couple toughman contests when he was younger. He tended to use more karate/TKD style footwork (bladed body position, up on the balls of his feet), but threw WC style punches. Even with boxing gloves, they were quite effective shots.
I went to a boxing/wing chun seminar about a month ago which was held by one of the black sashes at our place who is also a professional boxer. He combines boxing into his wing chun, for example in sparring and chi sao. As people have said, keep on your toes! My normal wing chun footwork is similar to boxing position wise, but different in weight distribution and movement. Boxer are a lot more light on their feet and this is much better so I tend to go with this. There also no reason why you cannot employ the boxing guard and striking. One problem I think many people have is that they try to do strict wing chun techniques rather than just using the principles. That may work against wing chun but when you branch out you need to be less strict with what your willing to do or not do. I will easily drop something if I don’t think it works for me and add something that I feel does work for me. So I try to focus on the principles and try not to think about ‘techniques’ so strictly. Sometimes when people plan to do a technique (rather using reactions, reflexes and sensitivity) they try to go through with it even if the circumstance/position changes, rather that moving on accordingly.
Wing Chun takes more than a few monthes, dare I say even more than a few years to truly appreciate. Don't believe the myth when some people claim Wing Chun can be MASTERED in 3 or so years. Like Boxing, after 2-3 years a student has only barely scratched the surface of the system. He/She may have refined their basics to the point of applying it well. But still, there are kinks and cracks that need to either be filled up or modified to fit the criteria(s). And like someone above posted, it is the PRINCIPLE that counts the most. If one is so stuck up on technique and forces that technique in a FIGHT, even if the flow doesn't go with the intended script= that one person most likely is screwed. For example lets use a boxing match. A good boxer is preparing some combo drills on his focus pad b4 his big fight with a skilled opponent, he practices the 1-2, 1-1-2, 1-2 1-2, 1,2,3/duck right hand over top, etc etc. However, once he gets in that ring you can be sure he will not be forcing ANY of these combo's out onto an opponent. Most likely he will be FEELING out his opponent with jabs first and, flow on from there. He will simply set himself up for defeat if he forces any of the combo's onto his opponent, when the whole point is for HIM to set HIS opponent up. Everything for a boxer is meant to happen via second nature response, the openings in an opponent will present themselves, it is up to the FIGHTER to naturally and instantly feel for these openings and follow through quickly and quickly. Now for Wing Chun footwork, if it is a WC student who has very little experience in sparring or fighting; there is a good chance he/she will step into their first fight(s) with the slow dragging feet that they practiced in class. However, the wise WC student who learns well will pick up on things and adapt his footwork to pace with the opponent. In time through experience, fast footwork will be natural to the WC student since he doesn't force the footwork techniques out in a fight, he/she simply flows and allows things to happen naturally. Another fact many fail to realize is that boxers are conditioned very very well with anearobics to move lightly on their feet towards, away, and around their opponents. I think boxing footwork is very very good. Light, quick, and constant.
Good post Mike Tyson (is that really you?! ). As I was trying to say in my rush yesterday, wing chun's footwork is only bad in that people assume too much: start fight - assume stance - assume position... get hell kicked out of you...! Assumption in a fight is wrong! Especially as people will assume that rear-weighted stance. Don't get me wrong, that rear-weighted stance is good for keeping your front foot light for sweeps, stamps, scrapes, front kicks and takedown, and passable for issuing a good punch off the back foot and (with more hip movement that a lot of schools neglect) a reasonable lead punch. It's also good for uppercuts (though boxing is better). The stance is NOT good for moving more than one step, or for dodging! As a consequence, anybody spending more than a split second as you land whatever combination you've already felt out in that stance will get nailed. In any MA, footwork is not just about having 'good stance' but about how you transition: how you move from one stance to another, where your bodyweight is shifting to in relation to your strike, whether you sometimes need to avoid using a set stance and as Tyson implied find a natural flowing vehicle for your dodging etc. I don't know what kind of WC you do, but in WC the footwork should include the rear-weighted stance (which some people say is 100-0, but that seems like nonsense to me and I favour 70-30/60-40 or whatever: the number is a guideline - the important part is it's rear-weighted!), a 50-50 head-on stance, the stupid-looking Y stance from SLT (even that has a couple of fighting applications), a pin ma (front weighted, back heel up, like a stance in boxing when you've just delivered a nice cross), a 45 deg sie-step to every direction with various weighting depending on what strike you're throwing, huen bo (a circular step for sweeping, low circular kicks and takedowns), a low horse and an arrow stance (low side-stepping one for low punches and getting out the way) and any transition you can think of between these static stances. You should work these out with wall-bags, heavy bags, dummies, punch/kick pads/shields and most of all opponents from other MAs in full contact sparring (or as near as you can get if you don't have the protection). As Tyson said, boxing is more simple and instinctive... all of WC's training encourages you to think inside a box, and even when you get to Biu Jee (the last form) which is supposed to be the form for getting out of the box it's still too hidebound. The only way to get round this is by fighting! With your boxing friend, press in. I've never had any trouble getting an inside line with kickboxers and though good boxers will cover up and pick you off much better, you can usually get inside. Keep your lead arm going out, and punch with it! This is the same advice I received in boxing and wing chun... in WC the rule is, hit the nearest target with the nearest weapon, which is always the hand you have in their face. This will not get you a knock-out punch and the WC penetrative punch works more as a push to them when you're wearing boxing gloves, but this'll keep their head back and **** them off into making a mistake and flailing out which is when you hit them with a big cross (back foot punch: you can call it a chain punch if you must). Did I mention: don't chain punch! Chain punching is BS invented for fighting other old stylistic CMA and people with no fighting experience. In a modern setting, especially against other MMAs it's useless except as a drill for getting power from either hand from any position (try working it against pads and heavy bags from random angles, not just square on). It is not meant as a fight stopper. Of course if you are lucky you could drop someone with it, but to repeat: a chain punch is a drill. Keep the pressure up, cut the angles (back and forward - one of the advantages of the rear-weighted stance if you are using it properly is that it's great for when you're being forced backwards), and keep punching! Also in WC, people are taught too much to onoly go for perfect strikes to the central mass. Well don't forget, when a boxer is covering up with his arms and gloves, the central mass is through those arms! I know in WC you're always told not to go for the arms, but that means not to chase them when they're moving around (you can't block or catch a fast-moving arm): they are legimate targets as every boxer and other ring fighter knows. And hitting their arms will tire them out and wear them down and provoke them. As chunners don't protect their heads, you're gonna get hit! So, it IS essential to work on these footwork drills to make them as light and fast yet weighted as a boxer's. (Although I would also recommend modifying your wing chun guard to look, surprise surprise, like a boxing one, since you'll be wearing big-assed gloves!) Don't forget it's the connection through your feet, knees, hips, spine, shoulders, elbows, wrists and arms that make your wing chun punch so if you are so concerned with sticking to the WC 'rules' (which you shouldn't be anyway!) it's the speed, pressurizing strategy and hitting the damn opponent that are important so like with the footwork before contact, any guard is OK! Though personally I'm an aggressive fighter so I only use my guard to keep launching my punches and I rely on my natural speed to duck and dodge rather than covering. that may niot work for you, so you may have to work on a ring-style guard for when he's coming at you witha serious onslaught (tho you should take the initiative!). Incidentally, when you're fighting with kickboxers, or in an MMA format with lighter gloves you can grip with, you'll find most people use a longer older-school guard anyway, better suited to what you know. If you do want to work on a bpxing guard you can get some tips from your bxoing friend, but glue your gloves to your head! When I first went against MMAers in sparring with my WC base I found I would most often get nailed by my own gloves being bounced off my head! There should literally be no room for error! Ducking is ultimately better than getting nailed, even on a guard. When you get to Biu Jee, you should learn better head protection (the reason it isn't in the first two forms is because in old-style WC like in old-style bare-knuckle boxing there was less lateral movement and a longer guard because an ungloved strike from a lesser distance would still cut and do more damage than a boxing-gloved one), better centreline recovery (in short, covering yourself!) and ducking/dodging. Edit: cos I think it's worth saying again. Wing Chun isn't a way of fighting, it's a way of improving your fighting. That's probably the same for any martial art.
Oh, forgot to mention, you could always follow Shen Yin's advice, as she obviously has a lot of experience of using wing chun against ring fighters, and a lot of boxing experience.
... Even if the constant complaining reminds me as well of a sour old lady, I'm pretty certain Shen's a he.
Be patient! Jugo, you need to be patient! Boxer's, kick-boxer's, thai boxer's are agresive, but charge with their head not their fist. When he chrges, you charge and hit. Simple. +their weeknes is their front leg! They put all their weight on it. Kick the hell out of it. Oh, and keep your focus on your center.
You've never kick boxed or fought a kick boxer with more than a years experience in your life have you?
You are confused. Boxers, kickboxers etc. are guys who do sport. They are not warriors. They are stupid SOBs who do not have a chance in their life against real Kung Fu. :woo: If you have a problem with that, go home and play with your TV. (serbian slang) "Ticu pajseru vake ti cupi." (this is the traditional serbian "hello") :Angel:
