What exactly are the differences in style and stances and philosophy between the southern and northern Tanglang (Praying Mantis) styles? I understand they come from different provinces and from different founders and also the land helped to develope their stances, Southern lower and wider, northern more vertical and direct.... etc. but I am asking practitioners, how do you feel about it and what do you guys think the differences are? I hope to be taught Tanglang (northern) in the future by my Shifu but I am very interested in southern as well, however I must say I have seen much more of northern that southern in where I live in the USA, New England... Thank you all EDIT: I have seen severeal topic for northenr and southern in general, but I am talking about Tanglang specifically and the philosophies and forms behind the two main groups of Tang lang (north and south)
You've got the stances in reverse. People will probably tell you they are wholly unrelated, but I have a suspicion that they share common roots. I've never studied Southern, but my impression is that it is more focused on short-range than Northern.
Shoot Yohan a PM.. he does Hakka Tang Lang boxing.. There's also a few others on here that are Hakka Mantis boxers. What Ony said.. I'm 6'8 and my stances are loooooow low low.. I don't think Southern Mantis is in fact mantis. So many of the hakka styles are so similar that its hard to tell them apart.. as opposed to a northern tang lang stylist.. you'd know it was mantis after you ate 5 punches to the face and solarplex, got kicked in the junk and slammed face fist into the ground and had your arm tugged up your back from behind while you're still trying to figure out how you made it so quickly to the ground in the first place. Not to say southern mantis isn't brutal ass kicking in itself, but I'm a touch bit partial to northern tang lang.
I see, I suspected there would be less info on Southern style. It has some similarities to northern in that most sorta mimick a Mantis. But I have the impression that northern is very fast and agile and southern can be powerful and fast but more stable and rooted... in a way I guess they reflect different ways a real Praying Mantis attacks... rooted firmly and attacking or pouncing... I am unsure as to what my Shifu intends for me, he clearly knows my big interest in Tanglang. But his routine for teaching is touching on "Power Fist" then "Continuous Step Fist" and then after basics are mastered, being able to go on to weapons fighting, Eagle Claw and/or Tanglang (northern) my stances are somewhat low, and I have started to fight lower, though i find it harder (or unused to) making kicks like round-house or side kick in such a low stance. "front-ball" kick and front heel is not too tough at all. I am only a beginner, but I really want to know as much as I can about Praying Mantis, the style that really inspired me to get into Gongfu, otherwise I would have gotten into TaeKwanDo most likely
forgive me for asking, but where do you live and whom do you study under? Tang lang can be studied from the get go. Both north and south mantis are stable and rooted. The footwork in most Northern Tang Lang is very intricate and hard to follow. I like to call it ghost stepping When you say heel or front ball kick, are you sure you're doing kung fu? Mantis Kung Fu is meant to be done with shoes on. you kick with the whole underside of the foot, much unlike karate or TKD.
I live in Massachusetts, USA... but the reason i use some of that terminology is because of my experiences with Kempo and TaeKwonDo before Kung Fu... I study under Shifu Brown of the Boston Kung Fu Tai Chi Northwest in Littleton. The link to his Kung Fu program is here. I really like the place, it is small and very friendly and there's one-on-one education and a lot of emphasis on basics, respect, and tradition but also practicality. Though I have to admit it but I am mainly interested in learning Praying Mantis styles, any one, I have no preferrence as of now since i am a beginner. But I am just so appreciative of Kung Fu in general, or martial arts in general. and about my observations on foot work.. I got that from watching performances of Bung Bo (crushing steps?) and the southern Sam Bo Jin?. But I don't know if those were stylized or whatever for performance or not. anyhow the SamBoJin reminded me of a Hung Gar form i once saw EDIT: oh yeah, and about shoes... I do wear shoes at classes (cute shaolin looking ones ) but I normally go barefoot at home and so i practice barefoot at home too
I have a bad feeling about his school . . . but it may just be me. If you wanna do Tong Long, you should be able to from the get-go. Oh and, I believe that Northern and Southern Praying Mantis are not related whatsoever. NPM is longfist . . . . it orginited from the North. Southern Mantis is a Hakka style, and it's related to other Hakka styles such as Bak Mei (White Eyebrow) and Lung Ying (Dragon Shape). There are no similarities between NPM and SPM except for the fact that they both are designed to seriously kick your ass.
why would you have a bad feeling about his school? Well when i go off to college I probably won't be able to continue anyways, but don't worry about me being unhappy with my Shifu. I like other opinions and i have questioned my Shifu before, but so far have found nothing to be unhappy about. But please, give me your opinion
Well what style are you doing now? And why won't he teach you mantis yet? Does he study mantis? Who did he study mantis under? These are all valid questions that must be looked into. Peace
hmm... well I am in the Basics stage which is where basics are taught and the shifu sees if the students have the ethics, respect, and diligence and also sees if I (or anyone in basic or trial) am fit for the class. He is semi-exclusive in that he has this trial period to see if he'll accept a student. so like I said before, i am a beginner, and not actually doing a style as of now. He does practice mantis and had studied under/with Tony Puyot... that's what i know... also funny thing is, a friend of mine is in his classes and he is not on the "certain level" but is being taught weapon-style and the Long Fists not in his "level"... so I don't know if these rules & levels are just as guidelines for teaching or if they are concrete, since in many cases he has been flexible with it. I mean I know one guy who was very interested in Eagle Claw, and though he had to go through the "levels" he was being taught it with respect to Eagle Claw and being taught basics of Eagle Claw, etc. so you guys know almost as little as I do about how serious and concrete the levels and rules to the teaching are.
There are a few reasons why I think Northern and Southern Tanglang are distantly related. Although Northern seems much more long-range, it also has some stuff that is really small and in-fighting oriented. Things like "wuda lianhuan pi" look very similar to Southern to me. My Taiwanese teacher does a rare kind of palm conditioning that is also apparently practiced by Southern Mantis masters. My Taiwanese teacher likes to use a type of fist my new Mantis teacher says is only used by Southern (though that could just be my Taiwanese Mantis teacher being idiosyncratic). Both have a strong emphasis on using the "tendon-power" of the arm and finger meridians. I've done exercises with my Taiwanese teacher identical to some drills I've seen Southern Mantis people doing. Though my Taiwanese Mantis teacher (7*) favors a more upright sparring posture, my Taiji-Meihua teacher favors one with the shoulders pushed forward and the stomach concaved--similar to the one you typically see Southern Mantis boxers using. Though I see what people are saying about Southern being more similar to other Hakka arts, I keep seeing coincidences more than just the name. My personal theory would be that a Hakka boxer studied some Northern Mantis way back when and incorporated it--though that's a total guess. Alternatively, maybe someone incorporated certain techniques of Southern into a Longfistish framework and then came up with Northern. No historical backing for any of these theories of mine--just hunches. Hopefully in the future I'll have a chance to research it more.
definitely... however i do see similarities in both... I also want to know... how emphasized are kicks in Praying Mantis? low kicks mainly? personally I really like kicks, and knees, etc.
I think in Southern Mantis it will be mostly low kicks. Northern Mantis has all kinds of kicks, low, high and jumping.
Stop playing with these bugboys and start learning Choy Lee Fut. You'll learn how to actually fight instead of trying to mimic an insect about 6 inches long.
I see, thank you I'm quite unexperienced but often low kciks haven;t worked well for me in a spar, maybe I fight too experienced people. But I have learned to take hits since I am in a low stance and I can kinda absorb it and take it in, and sometimes I confuse them enough to clinch and then knee them :woo:
...yeah i was gonna say what onyomi said... and since I am the same size or shorter (slightly) than most of my friends... oh, well thanks guys for your inputs, if we have anymore differences and characteristics between northenr and southern we find out we can discuss here
after doing some research... I find that for some reason, northern mantis has many core moves resembling Longfist, and Souther has many resembling Hung Gar... and both mantis styles ( and their sub-styles) have certain traits that resemble each other... anyone like to explain/elaborate/add-to this for me? thank you all, I appreciate the helpfulness of the forums here
Dude Southern Mantis does not in ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM RESEMBLE HUNG GA KUNG FU. And I'm not being a dick . . . . lol . . . . . it's true. Although you are correct about the correlation between Northern Longfist and Northern Mantis. Peace
its ok, its just my observation, like I saidm I am a beginner and very inexperienced and I am unfamiliar with southern styles, so forgive my confuzians
