Balance and Power from the Big Toe?

Discussion in 'Aikido' started by whitetiger49667, Jul 27, 2006.

  1. whitetiger49667

    whitetiger49667 New Member

    I have read that a very important variable of balance and power in Aikido techniques comes from the planting of the big toe on the floor. Is this true?

    If it is, could someone please elaborate a bit as I am not entirely sure whether or not I am missing something.

    Also, I have tried so many times to effortlessly apply joint locks but many times my partner lets loose his grip before I can commit. Am I not applying the right pressure or angle? Any bit of advice would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank you
    Whitetiger
     
  2. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Hi Tiger

    I have never heard that in many years of training. Aligning the foot to a kuzushi during techniques perhaps?
    Check out martial arts of aikido thread for other info on aiki

    Regards koyo

    Major principle of aikido. Do not attempt to throw or pin someone who has not been properly unbalanced first.Perhaps this is why he can withdraw his attack.Any questions are welcome on the aforementioned threads (no politics or personalities PLEASE THANK YOU)
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2006
  3. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    Hi WhiteTiger
    I think worrying about your big toe is a waste of time.

    Describe the lock you are trying to do?

    PS. READ THE MARTIAL ART OF AIKIDO THREAD.

    The Bear
     
  4. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    No not true because your question is too general, IMHO.

    The first part of any statement of truth in martial arts is to find a specific context in which it is true.

    So basically find the context in which it is true that the planting of the big toe on the floor is important in Aikido technique or else the technique will not work. Once you find such a context, then figure out why it is true. Find out the underlying principles. Once principles are understood, you can apply that knowledge to get other applications to work using those same or similar principles.

    I realize that you asked a question, but you have not provided a context for which your statement is true or that you are concerned about.

    In other words, please ask a more specific question such as is it important to pivot on your big toe, or is it important to plant your big toe when striking (atemi), etc. Give a specific context for your question, then perhaps you will get some useful information.

    WHKD has a nice sequence for techniques but this applies to Aikido just as much:

    1. primative, 2. mechanical, 3. technical, 4. creative, 5. fluid.

    So a student that is new to something starts with just the primative gross movements of a technique. Then they ingrain that generic mechanical movement into muscle memory (the repetition of 2000 time kind of thing). Then the technique is refined and corrected to get all the technical details correct. Then through resistance and testing the student learns to be creative and adapt the different pieces of the technique to make it work in a situation.

    However it isn't until the technique can be used in a fluid seemingly "effortless" manner (instinctively with flow, but not predictable) that it is ready to used on a real situation (combat).

    Therefore, to be practical application, use only what you have developed to the fluid level in combat.

    So IMHO whitetiger49667, you are getting ahead of yourself. Technique won't be truely with the feeling and look of effortlessness until you have perfected it.

    You know the saying that someone really good at something makes something that is difficult "look" easy. Since you are not yet able to take a difficult task of downing a resisting opponent using an Aikido technique and make it look easy, you just got to use more effort and try to make it work rather than get too far ahead of yourself. Even force the technique (very un-Aikidoish) if you have to so that you know what it feels like when it works. People learn from success.

    Here is my advice... At earlier stages, for Aikido technique, my advice to you whitetiger49667 is that it is probably more important to learn to relax at the right times. Relaxation is not being like a wet noodle, it is a relaxed state that allows you to move freely AND apply strong technique.

    Rather than try to be gentle, really hit the technique harder (but in a relaxed state like a "whip" rather than like a "steel bar"). When you hit something harder, then stick to it like glue. You should find that hitting harder with relaxation at the right times allows you to stick better than some overly passive limp technique.

    It may take you lots of effort to learn to move in a relaxed state that is still strong, this can take years to develop and it comes with experience and practice. I mean experience on the mat or in real situations against resisting opponents that challenge you to test your technique.

    I hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2006
  5. Dave Humm

    Dave Humm Serving Queen and Country

    *Anatomically* our big toes contribute to about 60% of our ability to adjust balance so, they play a big part in what we do with our feet however, I too have never heard or read that emphasis should be placed on the toes as part of aikido waza, not in the way you describe.
    there's two basic issues here, whilst one or two replies here have been very technical, I'll keep mine on grass roots level.

    1, your training partners may not understand what "commitment" means in terms of their connection with you during your time learning techniques

    2, "effortless" technique takes almost (if not all) of a life time's worth of dedicated study to achieve, some of us will never reach the top of that mountain however, if you mean application of technique without undue strength then what may be happening is that your training partner isn't feeling what you're attempting to do because your concentration is on being effortless instead understanding the mechanical application and more importantly; the principles which make those mechanics work.

    My advice ? Keep training week in week out and don't overly worry about anything. Walking through the door of the dojo and training is all that's required.
     
  6. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    Balance and the delivery of power is the whole reason you have a big toe in the first place. So it's not just true of Aikido. It's true of everything that requires standing on you feet.
     
  7. kiaiki

    kiaiki Valued Member

    look at Youtube.com and search for Gozo Shioda.
    EDIT: Done it - here you are:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?search=Gozo+Shioda&v=1sCevYMrZtY

    He demonstrated a very painful pin in which he uses his big toe on Uke's foot, transferring his balance and putting the force down through his knee. I've never done it but it looks mighty painful!
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2006
  8. RonBurgandy

    RonBurgandy Banned Banned

    We practice turning on the big toe here in Iwama, Saito sensei has really started pressing this point this year. when you look at taino henko, we are taught here to align the front foot and toes with ukes toes so that they are in 1 line, instead of stepping to the side of ukes feet. from there you pivot from the big toe around ukes foot so you finish with your front foot directly at the side of ukes, toes all aligned not in front or behind,(this is in kihon )
     
  9. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    What others have posted on here about the big toe be responsible for much of our balance is basically true.

    There are many sports where much of your direction is controlled by your big toe essentially. At first it sounds a bit silly but when you consider the amount of nerve endings in your feet then it doesn't sound as far fetched.

    Surfing is a prime example of a sport/physical activity where you big toe plays a primary part. Spend any amount of time surfing and you'll realize that all your directional control comes from the big toe.

    That the feet contain many cutaneous mechanoreceptors is a large part of why your feet and especially your big toe contribute to your proprioception. Your lips and your fingers also contain many cutaneous mechanoreceptors.

    LOL! :D

    Ok enough of slips science lecture... read up more on proprioception and how it works with your central nervous system and maybe you can see things in a different light.
     
  10. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Good information Slip. Of course the big toe can contribute to balance, but there still needs to be context in which this information is true or of value.

    I had a lot of problems with whitetiger49667's original question because of the lack of context.

    If for instance, a student tended to turn on his heels (lifting the toes up) causing them to lose power and balance then telling them to first make sure to plant their big toe is a way of correcting their form. Every instruction needs a context for which it is true, otherwise information will get generalized and can lead to incorrect assumption.

    For example, which is more important, bending the knees or planting the big toe? If I walk around with locked knees, I'm going to lose my balance, it doesn't matter if my big toe is firmly planted or not. So if a student did not bend his knees when attacked, I would tell them to bend their knees first when attacked.

    If the original poster (whitetiger49667) had simply said he or someone he knows was having trouble keeping balance in the application of technique, then in that context, planting the big toe might solve the problem if he was not doing that. However the original poster asked a very generic question because no context to when it applies was given, IMHO.

    How about this generic question, "is it important that I can see to attack in Aikido?" Again, what good is an answer to this question without a context?
     

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