Well not really kids persay, I'm 18 and would lead not only the adult class but also the black belt class on average a couple of times a month. I enjoyed teaching both of these classes immensely and for the most part both classes, obviously especially my martial artist peers the black belt class, showed the upmost respect for me. However I noticed a few of the lower ranking, and i dont mean to insult any lower ranking members of this board by saying this, adults seemed to have a hard time taking instructions and, for lack of a better phrase, following orders from someone so much younger than them(especially my father but i think it might have been something entirely different in his case lol). I didnt really see this in the higher ranking adults, generally blue and up, nor did i notice this in any of the black belts, obviously a sign of gaining humility through the ranks. What these adults never seemed to grasp is while they are older than me i have been training for 5 to 10 times longer then them, about 8 years in my current dojang and 2 years before that in a different one, and have been an instructor for nearly 2 years, which is longer than a lot of them have been training. Has anyone else on this board been in any similar situations? Or better yet, do the lower rankings adults on this board, again not to insult anyone, have any insights or feelings on this subject? I am not currently an instructor because i am at my first year of college, although i would jump at the chance of being one for the college should they offer it to me because i really enjoy it, and any insights whatsoever will be greatly appreciated. I plan on opening up my on dojang some where down the line, probably well down the line since im only 18, and am trying to use this big span of time to collect theories and ideas on how to more effectively teach.
Well I'm a lower ranking MAist and I've noticed this to a degree. I think its just that lower belts haven't yet come to understand and practice humility and modesty to such a degree as the higher belts have, and don't take the instructer as seriously, and haven't yet seen the expritese of the instructer. But this is just opinion so.......
well im 18 as of a couple of months now and i have been teaching aldults scince i was around 14 mainly because master calls me a " freak of nature" but what i found works really well is to get the biggest or the best of the group thats giving you troble and ask him to show you what he has got....the only problem will be that you will have trained as you said for around 2-5 times as long as him and will be a much better sparer/fighter than he is and usually after being taught some humility they start to show respect... hope i helped (dont hurt them though only gentle action) Seminosukei
Kid teaching Adult I know exactly what your talking about. I been teaching for 6 years and now I'm 21, so that would make me a 15 year old instructor. I never have much problem with adult disrespecting me much when I was younger, but to understand them you have to think like them. Try putting yourself in there situation, would you trust someone that just recently finish puberity teaching you the art of fighting? I think not. How ever since your instructor put you in teaching position, that proves your qualify to be at where you are at I hope:Alien: Just show them why you are qualify to teach. People dont just follow you and respect you automatically because your a black belt or instructor. Show them what your capable of. Kick/punch harder than anyone, kick/punch faster than any one ,or even do it old school style simply beat some sense in them in a sparring match. Im 5'7 weight 135 pounds, and I have students that are 2x my size. And they deeply respect me because they know I am capable of improving them physcally and mentally. Hope this helps. PM me if you want more advice.:Angel:
And try not to get too upset when you start losing students. I have been instructing for a little while now and most of my instructing (and even training) was with people older than me. At one time I was the youngest in the whole group and I was the instructor! It's a fine line to walk knowing the difference in respect for an instructor and looking at someone as a 'pumped up little peacock'. Be careful in making sure you're after the right thing when you do what you do. People train in MA's for any number of reasons. I'm pretty sure one of them isn't to be told how to conduct yourself or live your life by someone in a totally different age group than you. Being an instructor should teach you humility too.
This not an adult vs. youth specific problem flyingblackbelt. I have seen mid-rank youth students disregard the instructions of higher rank youth students. And I have seen the situation that you describe w/ low rank adult students disregarding instruction from youths that out rank them. The problem is one of perception. Some students look at you and see your experience, and others look at you and see your age. Those students in your Dojo who look at you and see your age need to grow ( in character ), and it is your job to patiently help them on their way down that path.
In my club we have a 17 year old and I believe a 15 year old teaching the adults...and as far as respect goes from the adults they have it 100% because they are good at what they do. They can relate to the adults because they have been through the grades themselves and know the difficulties and they relate well to the kids because they go to school with them. Everyone knows in class they are to be refered as Sir and Miss...simple as that. I like the fact the younger ones are encouraged to teach, it isn't just for the art or anything, but getting them to teach people older than themselves does prepare someone for the life ahead, at some point we are all going to have to stand up in front of a group of people who will be older than us, this at least gives them the confidence to do it. Also as far as I'm concerned, they may be younger than me in years but they are more senior than me in TKD years and therefore deserve some of my respect... Plus they have real guts to do it because it's as sure as eggs is eggs I couldn't!
I got my instructors liscence at 15.I am now almost 18.I don't train in TKD any more but use to.I teach lau gar kung fu. I have to say i haven't noticed this.........apart form once or twice. I would advise against brown belts (or red belt black tags) form teaching in small clubs.Likeme.I am now a brown belt, but i should have been black belt say last year.I've been training for almost tenyears. Getting my BB doesn't concern me to much but teaching has defintly slowed my progress.In a small club like my own (that use to be huge) there are few senior grades.So i teach to help.
I find that the best way to gain respect from fellow students is through humility and example. Sometimes when students are new they may not realise that you are capable of advancing their training. In most cases its a matter of earning their respect and friendship
As a low-ranking adult (just went from white belt to 9th kyu green), I have been in this situation, and have no trouble taking instruction from someone younger than I (heck, just about everyone in the dojo is younger than I am!) In the martial arts environment, one should be humble enough to receive instruction from whoever is qualified to give it. We have had a young black belt student substitute for our Sensei on occasion, and I have utmost respect for his abilities (both in technique and teaching skill) and his gentlemanly behavior, so no problem there. There are some young people who are just a grade level or two ahead of me; I don't mind when they correct me, either, because they have gone before me, and I can learn from them.
thanks to everyone for their opinion, and its not really that they dont respect me, its little things like when im showing them their forms they tend to not wait until i call out the move but rather move while im showing it to them, which they dont do while the head instructor is teaching. That and apparently some of them have gone up to my instructor and said that i went to hard in the class and i forgot that the adults might not be able to do everything physically that the kids can do, thats fair enough, my instructor told me this and i can take constructive criticism, so i slowed the class down a little. Then apparently the same people told my instructor that i was going to slow, even he said that its probabaly just that they dont like having someone so much younger than them teaching because hes watched while i teach, on a very few number of ocassions hes actually taken the class, because hes had office work to do and even he said that i wasnt doing anything really different than he was. Anyways, just wanted some input thanks again.
Flyingblackbelt - i would have no problem in take any instruction from you if you show the knowledge, which you obviously do as your instructor wouldn't let you instruct at all. I have seen this type of attitude with a women instructor too. Mr Beefy walks into the dojo & thinks how can a "little woman" teach him anything? The answer is simply ignorance & anyone or most that have been in MA's for a decent amount of time learns to discard their ignorance (those that have it). You'll learn to look passed their ignorance just as they will!
I've enjoyed being taught by you ... and yes, I believe respect is mutual. Not only have I enjoyed being taught by you... but I have learned so much. Teaching takes certain key skills. It takes leadership (foremost), maturity (not equatable to age), originality and variety (just a dash, to establish your own teaching style and to keep the students interested), intuition (thinking outside the box), and an eye for what wrong technique looks like and how to fix it. A good black belt may be able to show you how a technique SHOULD be done, but will not necessarily be able to point out why you are doing it wrong. I think that is also an important aspect of being a good instructor -- being able to definitively show a student that they are doing a technique wrong, and show them why. Confidence in your own technique is key, because if you are not confident with your own skill, why should your students be confident in you? (where my own personal problem lies... but we won't go into that) You are confident! I have alot to say about "those lower belts" that I choose not to say here. Suffice it to say that many of them have a hard time taking instruction .. period. As far as your dad.... well, I don't know how he managed through class ... (although he did manage a few comments under his breath) Basically, I believe what you are asking is that does or can the adult student take instruction from a younger instructor? I haven't had a problem with that in our school because I have had complete confidence in the instruction I was given. (although there was a year that I took off for reasons regarding my instruction that we won't go into here) WE MISS YOU!!!!!! Keep me in mind... I need a job! By then I may be more confident in my abilities to teach TKD.... (and have all my forms remembered!! )
Apologies for butting in. How necessary is the divide between Teacher and Student? It's not the Army. We're not in School. We're not employee's. We learn as much from our fellow students as we do from our Instructors? Why the authority issue?
I'm a 34 year old Sr blue belt. I must admit that checking your pride at the dojang door is the biggest lesson that can be taught to older new students. I have been taught by 16-21 year old instuctors and find it exilerating. Just seeing the level of MA abilities at such early ages makes me wish my parents would have let me join when I was their age. ( they were anamately apposed to my learning how to "beat people up") I joined TKD 1 year ago with my two sons ages 12 and 13. We are having the time of our lives, and really getting closer to one another I might add. My only gripe is 9 (or so) year old 2 dan black belts that can't throw a descent side kick. Otherwise, I'm very proud of the younger blackbelts at my school. I see "cubs" starting at age 4 and wonder what degree of skill they will have attained by my age. You have to respect that. TKDshane Ÿ
thanks kickchick, i miss training there too, and i really need to train, and youknow i can understand my dad muttering things and hes even told me its very hard to be taught anything by your child, i can definately appreciate that(atleast hes being honest although addressing him is akward because when were in the dojang and im instructing it just feels wierd to call one of my students dad, lol). Oh and im glad you noticed this too, i though it might just have been in my head. And morphus, i love when those guys walk into the school and then get their butts kicked by the female blackbelts, by the way guys one things ive learned from my 2 years of teaching is that females have a tendency to be better at the art then males. Oh and kickchick, you need to be more confident in your abilities, i would have you teach at my dojang anyday.
Andy... I understand what you are saying. In this case, please keep in mind that we do have an established heirarchy in Taekwondo and unless we own/run our own school, we cannot avoid this. Granted, some instructors take their rank way too seriously. (Yes, we do learn from other students as well, but most students look to the instructor FIRST as the proper way of doing something.) However, as an instructor, I need the students to do what I tell them in class for several reasons, mainly to prevent injuries, to use time effectively and to help ensure that students are being trained with respect to theri levels and abilities. Without the discipline in a FORMAL class, especially a large one, it may result in a waste of time and potential injuries. In an informal class, you can be mnore relaxed. On the original topic, I think in many schools, students need a bit of time to get to know the instructor... beginners have gotten used to one instructor (or the master) and only trust information form that one person. Some people have a problem with gender and/or age and need to see first that the person is competant. It is not limited just to age... I left the school 4 years ago to train in Korea. When I came back, I joined the class (mostly unknown people) and later was appointed assistant instructor. I dealt with a lot of resistance because I did things "differently", because they didn't know me and becauise I look a bit old, fat and slow (of which I am not). I taught them the best I could and tried to make training practical, exciting and fun at times. I worked with everyone one on one when I could. I led by example and now after a few months as "assistant instructor", they class trusts me and I have no resistance. I am not a stickler on protocol but I expect the students' attention when I instruct and work with them... not because I am the "teacher" but because I have a lesson to share and I want it to be effective. The respect and attention should be given to EVERYONE who is sharing, not just "black belts or instructors" by the way.
There's an issue right there. If I had people come up to me after a class to complain about another instructor (or just to give 'feedback') I'd ask them to take it up with that instructor first and see me only if that didn't work. Chain of command, people! There for a reason.
That's the problem. With our societys obsession with lawsuits and litigation, most insrtuctors are affraid to be "hard" on a class for fear of being sued. I personally like the challenge. I hate it when new less experience instructor don't push me as hard as they know I can go. I feel "jipped". Make me sweat, hurt, cry darnit. I'm paying good money for this! TKDshane Ÿ
Funny you should say that TKDshane ! We had an exceptionally gruelling class this past week. Repetitive bag kicking (mega amount), tension kicks (holding for a minute), relay drills (kicking wavemasters the length of the dojo in team races), then ended with forms (after each form--down for 25 push ups) for black belts that was a total of some 250 pushups ... so everyone at end of class walked (no hobbled) to change muttering ....".......and we pay for this???"
