What do you expect when entering someone else's Dojo?

Not just with etiquette but in how you expect to be treated and what would make you walk out?

If I were to 'pop in' to someone else's training centre I would expect them to be a bit 'guarded' with their techniques and I wouldn't expect to wear my belt, etc. I also wouldn't expect for them to feel the need to give me a hammering (although I've had it happen before) or expect too much bowing or other things.

The things that would make me a little uncomfortable would be 'punishing' of students, talking rubbish and unsafe techniques but it would take a bit to make me say 'Look, I gotta go'.

If I was invited to another training centre (I usually decline unless they have been to mine) I would expect to wear my belt and do what I know unless specifically asked otherwise.

With sparring/Randori I wouldn't expect to be 'hammered' right at the start and this is probably the point I'm trying to get at. Specifically where you train in a style that isn't (let's say) compatable with another club's style - grappling vs. striking for example - how far would you expect to go (or have happen to you) on a first meeting.

Note that this isn't in relation to a competition, just a 'visit'.

 

Depends on which school... going to some schools, I would expect to get hammered, some schools I would expect to be taken care of... depends if they know I'm coming and what not, whether I know anyone there.

Another striking school, like any other student - I wouldn't mention I grapple or anything. I'd be expecting the beat down if I told 'em I grapple, particularly if they don't see the need for grappling.

 

Hey Jim
It sounds like you are talking about schools with simular styles to your own.(eg I have never seen a guy in a gi walk into a boxing class)
I think I would do a bit of reseach about the school I am interested in,then go in in civies and have a chat(I expect the instructor to treat me as an equal,and I don't see why I should have to bow to him/flag walletc..)and watch a lesson.If I become a student I will follow any rituals the teacher demands.

I understand that some Traditional Teachers will find this attitude not in line with what they require.
Generally I think I would always watch a class first before trying it out.I would hope the atmosphere is generally happy and enthusiastic,not agressive.

 

Kat, I am 100% in agreement with you.

If I were to go to another school (and I do this sometimes), I go first in civies and chat with the instructor(s). I tell them who I am, who I train with/under, style and rank and so on. I also tell them why I am coming in (usually because I was invited to "check it out" or for cross training). I ask the instructor for permission to come and I ask if it is okay to wear my uniform and rank. I have never been refused (althouigh there is a school I haven't even asked because of their very closed reputation/attitude)

When I go there, I expect to be treated just like they treat their other students. I will follow orders and treat everyone their with respect. I don't question their techniques during class and do what I am told... although I do ask questions AFTER class quietly with the instructor.

Sometimes we have students visit us from other styles (we are at a college and get many). They wear their own uniform and belt until and if they decide to join us... then we ask them to wear our uniform and be evaluated for our rank... (usually we honor what they are wearing).

We have them work with students of similar rank and deal with them just like our normal students. We don't let them spar until we get to know them a bit better. We don't want jokers coming in and trying to kick our butts. Once we know that they have control and what level they are at, we incorporate them into the full aspects of the class.

 

I once went to a hapkido grappling tournament with my friend, who is a hapkidoist. In the dojang they were very kind and friendly and even allowed me to wear my rank, even after I told them I could wear a white belt. It was a nice experience, especially because I was able to beat most of them in ne-waza ..

jonsku

 

We've had our share of "visiting" prospective TKD students who come in and try a class. Bear in mind, that within the area of our Tae Kwon do school there is at least 3-4 other schools... but then you get into sport & traditional TKD.
We've had students who were unhappy at "Korean" TKD schools claiming they couldn't understand the instructors or didn't care much about being forced to attend tournaments. .. Or other schools that charged too much for tuition.
As a whole our group of students are quite amicable to the visiting "prospective" student.... because that is usually the only time we get "visitors" ... to try our class and see if its where they would like to continue their training. We want them to feel welcome.
Most often then not... they stay and train. Others find it too difficult especially if they are black belts (WTF), to learn a whole new set of forms (ITF).
We've only had one person that had way too much to say in the middle of class how "things were done in their school"... almost to the point of "correcting" our master instructor.
So basically the visting student is really the one that needs to bear in mind that they chose freely to attend the class.... keep an open mind and watch what you say about how things were or are conducted at your school because it could come off as being rude.

 

I would expect some type of greeting if the school has a person at the front counter. And cleanliness. After observing the class, if I find alot of profanity and intimidation is evident in all phases I observe. I would probably not be back. Attitude to me is very important. If talking to the instructors and they bad mouth everyone elses style or school...............Out I go real quick.
If you want me to not step in your school, just burn the incense really heavy. It never ceases to amaze me that you have to deeply breathe to train and some schools burn incense like air. I think alot of them do it to mask the smell of sweat. Alot of students may have bronchitis or asthma and I don't think the incenmse is a good idea.



coutesy

 

I went along to a 'rival' class last night who is about 20Kms from me but is considered to be in the same 'area' (hey, I'm in the country okay?). I went in initially without my bag and waited to speak with the instructor by myself so I could let him know who I was and let him know that I had no 'ill intent' with being there.

Initially he was a little hesitant and allowed me to participate in their classes while wearing my own gi and belt. The class was good fun and the only difficulty I found was when the students asked me where I was from and what I did. I was a little hesitant about answering this for fear of having it come across that I was there to 'poach' but managed without too much difficulty.

At the end of the night we talked for another hour after class finished about life, the universe and everything and found that we actually knew each other from the days when the government stepped in to create the 'Martial Arts Control Board' and he filled in a few blanks for me regarding what happened there.

All in all a good experience and I have a standing offer to train whenever I feel the 'need'. The opportunity is there also to look at having a seminar that I may look at in the future. Too bad he's a bit technophobic otherwise I'd have invited him to our little forum here....

 

I ask the instructor for permission to come and I ask if it is okay to wear my uniform and rank.

I personally think it's pretty arrogant when guys come in wearing their black belts... Don't understand why, you're a white belt in BJJ, a black belt in something else. Needless to say, guys who wear ranks from other styles get the beat down! We had a few TKD guys who wore their black belts in and they got chased off real quick by all the colour belts..

 

Agreed Bon, but it's just as arrogant to pose as a 'newbie' and go along to someone's class.

The approach to the instructor taking the classes is important. I've never had anyone refuse to allow me to train with their people (ok, just one who didn't want me to 'corrupt' his students but that's a long story) just keep an eye on what happens.

 

Interesting... it seems our philosophies differ a bit. I would consider it arrogant to beat down visiting students from other styles. (Furthermore, I would consider an instructor who allows blatant bullying and beating down of visitors to be a petty, close minded, arrogant person undeserving of the title of 'instructor'.)

Sometimes you may visit a school which is the same or similar style and it is okay to wear your uniform and rank, if you have consulted their instructor first. For example, one of the local schools here is a karate school. When I visit, the instructor has allowed me to wear my uniform and rank, since it is a bit similar. In this way, now that they know me, I am asked about how it compares to TKD and such.

When I visit a traditional martial arts school, most people understand that it has taken me a long time to achieve the level I am at. The school wears a uniform so I shall wear mine, if it's okay with their master.

We get lots of guys coming in from other styles... for example, a senior ju jitsu brown belt has started taking classes with us. He visited in street clothes and tried out the Hapkido. He liked and asked to come in, but didn't want to buy a new uniform. We said "wear your ju jitsu one and your rank.... if you decide to join full time, you can get a uniform and apply for rank here." We have worked him into class and are sharing with him. I say "sharing" because he adds nice little touches to some of our stuff. If we had just "beat him down and chased him away", we would be much poorer in spirit and manners. I respecfully disagree with Bon's philosophy.

The spirit of cross-training to to explore other styles and schools and to LEARN, not get beaten up because you ventured into some other animal's territory.

 

Mate, they get the beat down because they wear their black belts from completely different styles and the highest ranked guys are brown belts. It's arrogant to walk in wearing your black belt - asking is a different thing, but I still think you're petty egotistical if you have to ask you can wear your black belt. I doubt the instructor is going to announce to the class that they've asked they can wear their black belt and will still get the beat down anyway.

I remember at my first lesson, it was humbling to receive the beat down from a much smaller guy than myself - it made me want to learn it.. A beat down in BJJ doesn't hurt physically, it only hurts mentally if you have a big ego. I think it needs to be done to demonstrate how effective it is against a resisting opponent - this is the reason I do it, not to satisfy my ego.

Jim, how is it arrogant to pose as a newbie and go to someone's class? I'd be more than willing to say I've done some boxing/kickboxing if I knew I had some skills - at the moment, I have some technique, but come sparring, I flinch something shocking and consequently don't work any skills. Another grappling class, I'd say I've done some BJJ, but that's it.

 

Not that this has ever come up for me, if I went to visit another school I would expect to be allowed to wear the rank I had earned. The fact that I earned it elsewhere shouldnt make anyone uncomfortable.

Of course what Ive read on this and other boards makes me a little suspicious of the school visit. It seems like its usually an excuse for the more impressionable among us to live out a chinese martial art movie ("my kung fu is stronger than yours") . With that in mind, if I were an instructor at a school that was about to be visited, it would probably smooth things over if someone contacted me up front .

 

Arrogant and possibily dangerous. It's arrogant because as an instructor I would treat someone coming in 'new' to a very brushed down workout even if they were very fit. Breakfalling, minor throws, strike defences, etc. to a limited resistance level. If you don't tell the instructor that you have 'some knowledge' it opens up a whole lot of complications later on.

Not just that but you're being dishonest up front, 'Oh yeah, did I fail to mention that I've studied x for the past 18 years?'

 

I don't have that kind of knowledge in striking, it's at best 6 months equivalent to my BJJ which is why I wouldn't tell an instructor I've done some before unless asked.

I guess I do agree it'd be arrogant to fail to mention you've trained XYZ for the past x years, but what if you've been the victim of a McDojo?

We had a guy come in at the end of one session, spoke to the instructor. I meant to ask him later if he was a karate guy (something about the way he held himself and what not told me this), but it slipped my mind. Next week I see him turn up to training, he goes off to the side and does kicks against the wall in the air while we're hitting pads. Following week he's on the pads and we was woeful, absolutely woeful.

I'd be embaressed to mention I'd done some training if this was the case and it is the case - the year of kickboxing I did was at a McDojo, no head shots - boy, didn't I get a lot of bad habits! Since I've been working my boxing and my hands have improved dramatically on the pads, but the pads only. My front kicks are the same, lost what little technique I did have for the side kick and my roundhouses and thigh kicks have so much more power since going thai-like. I still fall apart in sparring when shots get thrown at my head though, it's embaressing!

 

well considering i have had a few of the trouble makers froma rival studio come into our place and come as "newbies" so that when they were placed in a low intesity high speed spar with me they wnet hard and tryed to injure me for the next tournament i think they should be honest but not come in with there belt or gi because that is arrogant to walk in wearing it but by all means bring your own stuff because its even more inconsiderate to think that you can borrow another clans clothes without being part of the family if you get what i mean....also i think we need more balck belts coming into different studios and giving there imput in on what can be done to improve holes as such against other forms... then when it comes to compitition time there is a more equal playing field but in saying that i dont think all the "secretes" should be revealed heheheh but if any body who is Australian or is in the country in queensland i would really like to see some new talent in my area even if its only for a couple of days and i am willing to give them a place to stay aswell if needed i just wants some new experience before i compete in hong kong in two months.... please help me thanx
Seminosukei

 

Been to SHINDO gym? Sounds like an awesome place to train at, striking in particular seems to be top notch!

Heading over to the next Spartan on the 29t November? There's an 8 man heavy weight tournament, which includes Anthony Perosh (recently awarded his black belt in BJJ), Foki brothers (from SHINDO gym) - these guys hit HARD and have a good clinch, Pedro Lima (brown belt in BJJ), it's gonna go off! I'm trying to organise my way there and back.

 

I’ve been thinking about Bon’s comments… I think I understand where he's coming from but I still don’t think it is proper to “beat down” visitors… I prefer to ease them into the class so they know where we are coming from and what we do. In this way, we get more sharing between the styles and often find new ways of doing old things. Our school, which highly endorses cross training and inter-style experimentation, would be very poor if we scared away guys from other styles by beating them down right off the bat.

Additionally, by bringing in people from other styles and advertising what they have learned, it gives the class a chance to work with someone from a different style. If you only work in the same style, sometimes students can get a bit easy going with the locks and throws… they do have to see how they work on someone who reacts differently.

As for wearing rank at a school I am visiting, yes, I would ask for permission from their instructor and I would like to wear my rank if the system is similar. In the case of very different styles (like a TKD student going into a grappling school), I do see where you might not want to wear your rank, if only not to look bad trying out a lot of new stuff. Usually when we have seminars with a mix of styles, we wear dobok bottoms with a plain black shirt and no rank. At the ICHF seminars, often we wear no rank. It makes it comfortable for everyone.

Bottom line: I think it is a good idea to check before you go to another school and find out what you should bring, wear and do. If their instructor asks you to wear a white belt, do so (I keep one handy for visiting schools of very different styles… although I do inform the instructor discreetly of my background). I still disagree with beating down visitors and I hope that one of these days the “beaters-down” get a hold of a lion who rips them apart for trying to beat them down.

 

It's bizarre this thread has come up at this time.

As some of you will know, I've been round and trained with a few forum members in different disciplines already, but I was looking into doing this more often, and even with non forum members in order to provide 'club reviews' for the magazine section of the site.

I'm a little concerned that people might be offended by the 'phantom shopper' approach.

Someone tries to beat me up as a newbie, they're in for a shock.

But then, if I enter explaining my background, won't some people try even harder to be superior?

One observation I've made already, is that no-one ever genuinelly wants to know much about your own training, they'd far rather blow their own trumpets.

All invites welcome btw. It's one of the reasons I posted the 'All Members' thread in General Discussion, which many of you seem to have overlooked.

 

I would say there is a bit of a difference in what you are doing... essentially "reviewing" clubs by going there. You have made the choice not to wear rank there as well. My advice would still be to let the master know you've had some previous training but you don't have to give your rank. I do think that explaining your background sometimes does make people want to be superior... but at least you are letting them know that you have some training and want to see what this club offers to students with "beyond beginner" experience.

As an instructor, I do like to know at least a little of students' training abckgrounds. It gives me an idea what to work with them on and what I expect to be strong and weak points so I can help work on them. I don't have a problem with students wearing rank from other styles and I don't have a problem with them wearing no rank.

Anyone is welcome to our school. Come with rank on or without and we will work with you and let you experience the school. If we know your rank and abckground, it helps us place you with the students who are most likely of a similar level...thereby maximizing your time and preventing boredom. My school is listed in the "All Members" thread, but you can PM me for more details. We are in Massena New York, by the NY-Ontario-Quebec border.