Brian McCarthy and the BBD

Hey,
I have just joined the BBD in Andrew Thomas's dojo in Portsmouth. I don't realy know much about the history of the BBD and Brain McCarthy. Some popel have told me that the BBD is not practising real Bujinkan ninjutsu. Can somone please tell me more about the BBD. Brain claims on the BBD site (www.ninjutsu.org.uk) that he is a personnel student of Dr. Hatsumi 34th Grandmaster but others has told me that he has only meet him 8 times and it was for personnel training but in a group. I'm going to be meeting Brain on Sunday 11th September and I really want to know more about him.
so if you know anything about Brain or about the BBD please relply!

 

His name is Brian McCarthy, not Brain.

 

yeah small spelling error you know what I ment so does it really matter?

 

Moved to Ninjitsu, you'll get a better response here.

 

As it's been moved I'll repeat what I said in the original thread.

I think a diplomatic way of putting it might be that the BBD isn't teaching Bujinkan Taijutsu in its current form. Another thing remember that the BBD isn't part of the Bujinkan they split some years back, I'm not saying this is good or bad just that it happened!

My understanding now is that Mr McCarthy wasn't a personal student of Soke! I will say that I was lead to believe the same thing, that Mr McCarthy was a personal student, when I was in the BBD !!

Also keep in mind that in the Bujinkan we are studying Bujinkan Taijutsu. The Bujinkan consists of a number of schools not just Ninjutsu Ryu.

There are a number of good things about the BBD I’m sure you’ll enjoy it . There’s more than a few BBD members on MAP who are all good people and I’m sure will help you out

 

some people have said that Brian was taught by Hutsumi (somthing like that). I found a few other people talking about the BBD.

I agree that Hatsumi was watering down the system by giving dans to anyone although some people said that he had good resons for it. I would like to know what gustification he has for just giving belts away.

On the other hand i also heard that Brian got form 1st dan to 8th in 8 years. One dan a year is way to fast seen as he (or rather his instructor Andrew Tomas) gradings should happen about every 3 years when the student is ready. so for somone that thinks the gradings hatsumi was giving were to watered down tehn tahts what he resived therfore he is not really deserving of that grade. But he did rurn down his 9th dan wich i don't realy understand why.
carring on with the waterdown stuff it could also be argued that the BBD's hole take on ninjutsu is watered down. Brain hasent trained since 1991 and had only trained for 10 years or somthing. This is when he set up the BBD so evryone he has taught has only had his 10 years of training experinece handed down. so as it goes through the grade rancks it get more diluted.

I think taht anyone tarining at Kyu level and early dan's can learn alot from Brain and his instructors but after that they are not really had the experince themselfes to teach.

 

Ok what you have to remeber about Hatsumi Sensei and Bujinkan grading is the he is Soke he can grade as he sees fit and from what I've gethered it's often for more than just skill.

I'd be carefull saying things like Soke was watering down the system especially since you don't seem to have that much experince in it !

Grading in the Bujinkan isn't like in anyother art that I've done and I stopped worrying over it a while ago.

I've no doubt Brian McCarthy has a lot to teach but you have to ask yourself this; is what he is teaching the art that is being taught by Hatsumi Sensei? I would imagine most folks with experince of both would say that it's not!!!

 

If you want to know, why not ask Andy?
He is one of the most experienced black belts in the BBD and he has trained in Japan, if that is important to you.

You will find a lot of martial arts politics, bitching, claim and counterclaim on the web, same in all online commmunities.

Ask people you respect, maybe even try different dojos and you might start to appreciate how lucky you are to be training in the Portsmouth dojo.
I'll declare my interest as I train at BBD Brighton and get down to Portsmouth when I can.

Sure you will see on Sunday just how 'watered down' training with Brian is..

 

The above is a very good point why not try out other Dojo and see which feels right for you??

 

NO, he did NOT turn down his 9th Dan, he was NEVER offered it!, and yes he did go from white belt to 8th Dan in 8 years, but that was Sensei`s decision, you cannot blame Brian for that, what you can argue is that Brian always complains about people getting grades quickly in the Bujinkan yet he accepted all his grades, so is it ok for him and not for the others??.

Who said Hatsumi Sensei has watered down the system???, if these so called departed "personal students" bother to go to Japan and TRAIN, they would see how NOT watered down it is.

Brian set up the BBD in 1995 after the E.B.N.S. folded, so he was with Sensei then, by 1999 he was already thinking of leaving, he officially resigned from the Bujinkan in 1992, the last time he saw Sensei was 1991 in Japan.

I am not saying that what Brian teaches is in any way crap, what i am saying is that it is definitely NOT Bujinkan and NOT what is being taught in Japan.

As i said, Andy Thomas is a good guy, i`ve known him for a long while, if you enjoy what he teaches, brilliant, what i would suggest though is to go and try an official Bujinkan Dojo as well, then make your mind up, you never know, you may not like them!.

 

Trained in Japan a long time ago though???
My understanding is that you have to be a Bujinkan member to train at Hombu.

Watered down is probably the wrong term! Out dated when compared to current Bujinkan training would probably be a more apt description from what I've gathered.

 

Ninja 93,
i will be asking Andy tonight more about the resons for teh BBD bashing. The only reson I am asking so many questions and trying to get my facts right is because I am really intrested in it, I might have only been doing it for two months but it has really helped me. I am really intrested in the history of Ninjutsu and that includs the history of the BBD. Its confusing for a newbie when loads of poeple are bashing the organisation they have just joined esseptialy when evry person says somthing diffrent.

 

You will see me at the cours eon saterday, whats your name?

 

Lot's of reasons for BBD bashing, personal, political and historical.
You will find that everyone in the BBD has considered the parting with the Bujinkan and made their decision on who they feel offers the best training for them.

All organisations have their strengths and weaknesses.
I've also trained with the Genbukan and found it not to my taste, but I don't think bashing them online would be very valid.

I also know several BBD students who have joined Bujinkan dojos when they moved too far away to train in a BBD dojo and have by all accounts flourished there.

I would not describe our training as 'out dated' as that does carry quite a value judgement. As I don't train in the Bujinkan I can only compare with what I've seen on tape to the competence of the artists the BBD produces. I would say that they stand up extremely well. Obviously that experience is limited as I haven't trained in a Bujinkan dojo, but would respectfully visit one if the opportunity arose.
Yes, Andy trained in Japan quite a while ago and is still playing. Not my place to comment any further on that.

I'm Peter, I'll be there on Sunday with the Brighton dojo, feel free to come up and say hi.

 

Some reasons that I've discovered for the er views on the BBD!

1) It's got Bujinkan in the title! When they've been split from it for a while it gives the impression that they are part of the Bujinkan

2) The whole Mr McCarthy was a personal student thing when he wasn't!!

3) Some of Mr McCarthy's reasons for leaving, which when looked at look like a bit of "pot calling kettle black" type stuff .

I've found that a lot of views come from the way Mr McCarthy has portrayed his position as a personal student and the way in which he left the Bujinkan.

Also I think that many of the former BBD members (myself included here) felt mislead by this portrayal. Whilst I was in the BBD and for years after I'd left I thought that the BBD was the Bujinkan in the UK and that Mr McCarthy was the representative of Soke over here I had no idea that they had broke away from Japan! All I can say is thank god for the internet as it wasn’t until I used that to look up MA that my eyes were opened.

I enjoyed my time at the BBD and as others have said one thing you get from it is Spirit. As long as you are aware of the fact that what is being taught in the BBD isn’t the art as it is taught by Soke in Japan and that you enjoy your training I wouldn’t worry. If you want the teachings of Hatsumi Sensei the go Bujinkan if you're not too bothered about that then stick with BBD as I'm sure you will still learn loads of other usefull things

 

Is it not out of touch with how the art is now being taught in Japan? When compared to current Bujinkan training it is out of date! How can it not be when there is no link to Japan and the feel and ideas of what is being taught there?

This isn't a criticism of the effectiveness of the training in the BBD as a Martial Art so please don't take it that way. I'm sure there are many capable and knowledgeable BBD people. :Angel:



ps for longer serving MAP people:

Thank god Greg's on holiday

 

He's always on holiday that boy

 

hope you enjoy the seminar mate, forgive me but your spelling is a tiny bit iffy.

after not doing very much of the read'in, rite'in and rithmatic for several years, due to the nature my job, i was in a similar position. i am still fairly poor but i am seeing some improvement, mainly by using these bb's.

if find it helps to digest how other 'clever cloggers' write. very often i think of a word i want to use, but i'm buggered if i can spell it or it always looks 'wrong'. i was working for a teacher and i explained my poor literacy(sp. do'h!) she very kindly gave me a dictionary which i use a fair bit, it's amazing how quickly you improve by having to constantly look stuff up.

sorry but i'm really not having a pop or trying to be a smart ****, but the more obvious (i just had to check on obvious there, i had an e on the end,lol) are;

brain/brian resons/reasons intrested/interested poeple,popel/people esseptialy/especially evry/ every saterday/saturday.

red pen away, as for the bbd, why would anyone want to learn from a dancing monkey that left, however good he is, rather than the organ grinder who is improving with age?
i can understand if there are no other bujinkan schools or bujinkan schools with a good teacher but.............. who give a toss what grade anyone is? or how quickly they get there, it's all about the training which came from takamatsu sensei then hatsumi sensei, who is still teaching... but whatever...

 

That's why I write my posts on MS Word first

 

Can I just point out the need to keep this thread clean, polite and away from any potentially inflammatory comments, lest old Grandad comes down and locks it up.