clinch basics!

We went over the basics of clinching in detail the other day in class, and it made me realise there is a lot that people simply dont get and have to be told. I was originally going to put this in the muay thai section since it deals with the MT clinch but i figure that anyone else could learn from this too. So, lets start with the basic clinch position...


you want to always try and have at least one hand round the neck, like how this guy on the left of the picture is doing. his other arm has been trapped, but in such a way that it pretty much disables his opponent from doing anything with it- while the guy on the left can still use it for leverage since it is pressed against his opponents body. from here what will usually happen is a fight for position- both guys want their arms to be on the inside of the other persons around the opponents neck and shoulders. If you are doing it without gloves there are more positions you can hold them in such as grabbing limbs. Now one important thing is to note how close their bodies are. this is because if your body is far away it sets you up for a straight knee which can easily be a fight ender. while of course you can do the same to them its much better if you stay close, put them off balance, and THEN pull back for the straight knee....



like in this picture. Of course there is more than one way to clinch. you dont always have to be straight on, in fact it can be better if you are off to one side as you can get better leverage.



like that. you can see how the lighter skinned fellow (Jadamba) has been off balanced to his right, and Buakaw the dark skinned guy is landing a very nice knee. but doing that is pretty much only going to get you one knee strike since you are pushing them down and arent really controlling the head like in a front on clinch.

Off balancing in the clinch is essential. you simply will not be able to deliver a powerful round knee (a knee that comes up and into the side of the opponent instead of straight through the middle) if the other guy is standing balanced. if you watch inexperienced fighters they often just go hell for leather with the knees, but you watch some pros from thailand and they will pick their shots and time them well. there are a couple of ways to off balance someone in the clinch- first way is to just plain old yank them downwards and to the left/right (important- if your head is on their shoulder in a close clinch, DO NOT yank their head towards yours. not only is it harder to get any real leverage but pulling someones head into yours is usually a painful experience)

yanking someone like that can work but is a real inefficient thing to do and is more dependant on strength. so to make it easier, lets make a scenario- you are standing front on in the clinch with your opponent, with both your hands around his neck on the inside of his arms. you have a superior position here so your leverage is gonna be better. Now, lets say you want to throw him to your left. you would step across at an angle to your right with your right foot while your left foot goes backwards (note- in the picture below Sato doesnt step across. you dont always have to especially if you are a tall guy, and in fact it is sometimes better not to because it can leave you open or telegraph your intention. but if you are going for a real heaver of a throw it can be good). at the same time as your foot going backwards you tear downwards and to the left as hard as you can, and as soon as they start to go, you bring your left leg back up for the knee- much like Sato does in this picture-


and bang, knee to the guts. same thing can be done with a straight knee, you just need to put your left leg back a little further. I think thats enough writing for now, Ill post some more ways to throw and some ways to counter later on... anyone else wants to contribute feel free, I think the clinch is a very under examined part of fighting in a lot of places so I hope this helps!

 

Fantastic post Ikken! Very informative, simple, not too long, and awesome use of pictures I look forward to your counters and throws installment

 

Nice one ikken, this will help us clinch noobs.

 

Ikken you rock

 

Great post ikken. Posts like this are also a great way to show that there's more skill to these things than you might think. Someone do a groundfighting one - how about it sonshu?

 

yes please

 

Damn I was gonna write this thread!

Now I have to focus on clutch basics instead.

 

Fantastic thread. I wish more people covered aspects of their MA's like you have just done.

I don't want to pick at little things but I thought I should point out that in MT not all the clinches involves having a hand on the back of someones neck. One that I use often, especially with opponents taller than me is the underhook clinch (hugging your opponent with both arms under his).

This clinch allows a shorter guy to control a taller opponent without giving him space to land his strikes.

Let me say again though. Great post. It was a pleasure to read.

 

Just to build on what Swoop said the double underhook is a good position to control from, but quite difficult to mount a knee attack from because its difficult to pull your body back. however it can be good to throw with which brings me to my next bit...

throws!

I hear those shocked gasps from the back of the room- yes, there are throws in Muay Thai. however there are strict rules in how you do them and really, the throws in muay thai are inferior for self defense to hip throws- mostly. they are however worth learning about.

One thing I didnt mention in the first was other ways to "yank". A real easy one is to fake it- pull lightly on their neck so they tense up, then a split second later do the real throw, to catch them off guard.

The easiest throw comes from a front on clinch, hand positions in whatever feels comfortable. basically this is a trip- you put your foot beside theirs and yank sideways so they trip over it. even better if you can get your knee there and use it as a fulcrum to tip them over. you can do this by putting your foot on the outside of theirs or in between their legs, depending on the situation. heres a pic of good old Buakaw throwing Andy Souwer over his knee, with his leg on the inside-



and heres another nice shot of the aftermath of a different sweep where his leg was on the outside-



Of course you can do this without using the knee to pivot, if you can get them off balance and use enough force to simply slam them to the ground. Now with the underarm hooks that Swoop mentioned there is another throw you can do which is similar- basically you pick the other guy up, twist your torso slightly to the side, and dump them. it aint pretty, but it works

Throws by themselves are great, but the idea of a throw is to set up for something else or as a "finish" of a combination. It shows that you have dominated your opponent and looks very impressive to the judges, and also if you are in a SD situation lets you get away. so for instance you might clinch, throw a knee, and then bring that leg down right outside their leg and throw them over it. As a follow up there is a drill we do that involves throwing the opponent to the side then immediately chasing them with a roundhouse kick, using the side that you threw them to (for instance, if I threw them to my left, i would follow with a kick off my left leg)

 

Very nicely done ...

 

Great post! I'm going to have a razz with this later.

 

Some of this is muay thai specific. Grabbing behind the neck in a style that allows throws or locks will lead to trouble more times than not. Alot of people might use neck surrounding for thier throw but they would usualy only put thier hand up there as they go for the throw. Useing a behind the neck grip as your basic clinch will set you up for duck unders that will give your opponant your back. You also see alot of armbars against neck or back of the caller grips.

 

Wanderlei manages, and as I said- these are muay thai techniques. Im not making any bones about that, of course they work better under MT rules but they can also work in other situations.. this is a forum for talking about martial arts in general remember

 

Good post Ikken ,Ive seen some dutch fighters use the clinch with devastating results,pulling the head down into a smashing knee for a ko,wish I could remember their names.

 

Just groundfighting in general or a specific aspect of it?

Groundfighting in general would be too broad a topic and it would be a lot of work.

 

dutch fighters are good but if you really want to learn the clinch game you gotta visit thailand. thai fighters plain dominate the clinch, Buakaw in the k-1 max is a good example of that. John Wayne Parr (aussies best MT fighter) said the first time he went to thailand he got thrown around by a dude half his size, and its his training in thailand that has made him one of the best clinchers in k-1.

 

Yes Ive some fights from Thailand,those guys are on another level,amazing how much punishment they can take,elbows from hell and wicked flash kicks too. Nasty stuff.

 

ikken i was wondering how You do a normal clinch, do you put your hands on there neck or there head? Because if u put ur hands in a prayer/cup like position on the back of there neck to there head it pulls them right into your chest and theres not as much they can do about it. but if u use there neck its easier for them to look/stand straight up and sliip a hand in between your clinch.

 

if you put it on the back of their head its easier for them to slip out of it backwards, while if you do it round their neck you have a better grip and you can also squeeze the side of their neck with your forearms

 

ever meet somebody over the 'net and know they'd be a blast to have some drinks with? Dude - yer definitely not right...



PS. re: clinching - everybody knows that on t3h str33t a fight always goes to the ground anyways, I don't see the point of learning a good clinch.

*snicker*