McDojo's

I came to this forum a few days ago and I have been reading alot of posts about "McDojo's".

It seems to me that a "McDojo" is anywhere where people think that they are not taking the martial art that they teach seriously. Although that may be the case many people judge these places without seeing them teach and im most cases after a few bad points have been told.

The way that you label a place a "McDojo" is sickining. Simply beacuse they teach techniques that you can't use on the street. IF EVERY SCHOOL TAUGHT ONLY THE STREET EFFECTIVE TECHNIQUES ALL MARTIAL ARTS WOULD BE THE SAME. Since Taekwondo uses too many flashy techniques it's not street effective? The fact is it is effective in taekwondo competitions and it is fun to do.

You also label places that have a high number of children in their classes "McDojo's". What do you want them to do? expose the children (who are at the most impressionable stage of their lives!!!) to large amounts of violence early in their lives?

Also you badmouth schools that have a "family" aspect to them. People you are missing a vital point of martial arts!!

Want a clue?.................FUN!!!!!!!!

If you want high amounts of self-defence and street effective techniques join a self defence class!!

Anyway thats my oppinion

 

People train for different reasons. Some want to be street effective, others just want a hobby that keeps them fit. Nothing wrong with the latter if that's what you're after. However, I think many people object to places that advertise themselves as teaching "self defence" but don't teach anything really useful. Aside from the wasted time, effort and money, this can give its students a false sense of security. Just my thoughts.

 

You haven't been reading right. Because if you did... you would have noticed that is is not if the techniques that they teach you are not effective what deems a school McDojo. But it is the overall picture... they claim to teach "secret deadly techniques" in 2 weeks, they charge huge amounts of money, become a black belt in 3 weeks and the list goes on and on. I personally don't care if you like TKD, that is just my point. You do what you want to do... and if it is more style based or competition based and it is good for you, OK !!! Nobody called your school a McDojo, so don't' sweat it. If you have a good teacher and your school isn't a McDojo then BE HAPPY !!!

No, but a degree of violence isn't too bad either... they are going to be confronted with this anyway in the future. Let the kids spar...

I think everybody here has fun in MA. So this has nothing to do with the fact if "family" are present or not. It is more the commercial based idea of family...

 

McDojos are often part of a franchise (hence the name, which derives from "Mcdonald's" and "dojo"). Although not exclusive to the West, such schools tend to prey on people relatively unfamiliar with Asian culture.

Indications that a school may be a McDojo include:

Binding contracts when you join, with high up front training fees, high testing fees and the use of collection agencies to collect any remaining fees if a student quits before the contract term is up.

Promises of obtaining a black belt within a given timeframe.

Very young (i.e., under fifteen-year old) black belts.

Flashy advertising, laden with boasts about the art's "effectiveness".

Questionable credentials of instructor:
Not from a known school or ryū
The instructor looks to be about 30, but claims a title of shihan, sōke (soke), hanshi, hachidan, Great Grandmaster, or other designation of senior status.

Claims to be a synthesis of many arts (very few of these "hybrids" are legitimate); especially if one instructor claims to hold high rank in multiple arts.

A McDojo falls under the category of disreputable/dishonorable martial arts described by some as Bullshido.

In short, McDojo is a term used by some martial artists to describe a martial arts school where image or profit is of a higher importance than technical standards.

 

This sums it up for me ( in short )... :woo:

 

IF EVERY SCHOOL TAUGHT ONLY THE STREET EFFECTIVE TECHNIQUES ALL MARTIAL ARTS WOULD BE THE SAME. ..........



hahaha that is one the funniest comments i have seen in these forums in a long time... only one real way to fight effectively hahah

ok ... im better now

oh wait you must be defending your own dojo.. ok i get it now.... fewww i was soooo confused for as sec.

KP

 

Must say there's some interesting oppinions there.
I hope you don't mind me asking a little question since were on the topic where did the name Mc dojo come from is from Mc donalds or something? Just curious

-Mike

 

nightcrawlerEX You are totally of the mark.........

As has been stated it has nothing to do with the techniques being taught, but when what is being taught, how it's being taught and infact if anything at all is being taught, is being shown to be a load of garbage inefective due to lack of teacher knowledge experience etc or if what goes on in that Dojo is just a total rip off Based of factuall evidence, then it will be deemed a MD..

And not because someone on here is upset with a dojo and decides they will slag it of.

 

Cheers bograt .

 

Yes, it is a pun named to give analogy like the "fast food" concept.

See my other post

 

You also have Budo Bell ...

 

Would this by any chance be directed at me?

 

Young BB issue

Pertaining to the suggestion that very young BBs are one potential sign of a McDojo...

I defiantely agree! I'm 19 and I know that the majority (we're taking over 95%) of young ppl are no way amture enough to sport a BB and live up to all that it means.

Have you ever thought that in actual fact a large number of adults are certainly not qualified in terms of personal character and attitude to merit a BB?

Some ppl may never be ready for a BB while yes, others may be ready when they are very young. It varies from person to person.

 

I don't personally think that this is a fair indication of a McDojo in many cases. A contract is a promise from the student to be serious about training in the art. I wouldn't label a school who asks prospective students to sign a six-month contract before joining to at least ensure that the student is serious about training with them for half a year "commercial."

It can't be so bad, especially in martial arts, to expect a student to have the discipline and commitment to uphold a deal to the best of their ability.

If a student quits for a good reason, most schools are fair and will not force them to pay off the remainder of their contract.

 

Personally, I think labeling a school as a McDojo or anything else is a bunch of bull. There are too many martial artists out there criticizing other styles and schools. If you’re not training in the school/style why do you care? The way they run class, what they teach, how much they charge has absolutely no effect on you. Honestly who cares if some 10 year old has a black belt. Do you think it will take away from what you have accomplished? Are you so insecure with your training that you have to hide behind you rank? If your whole goal in life/martial arts is to get a black belt go to century and by one for $5. It will save you a lot of time and money. If you’re serious about your martial art, then you shouldn't care about what rank you are. You will just work everyday on improving yourself.

Also a big part of martial arts is to learn respect. Respect for yourself, respect for your instructor, respect for fellow students, and respect for other styles. If you don't learn respect, than all that martial arts is doing is training you to be a bully.

Finally there is this big strive for all techniques to be "useful". There are two ways to teach someone how to defend themselves. You can teach a counter to each and every possible attack. The problem with this is that there an infinite number of attacks, so in theory one would have to teach an infinite number of counters. The other method is to teach people how the body works, to teach how the joints bend, how to strike pressure points, how to use momentum to throw someone, etc. This way when an attack comes you don’t have to go through your list of counters and pick the right one; rather you can improvise and do what is natural. A lot of techniques that are deemed as "useless" were never meant to be used on the street. They were meant to teach how the body behaves.

 

The fact of the matter is this:

We have to police ourselves. Sorry if that bugs people, but it's the truth. We have a lot of frauds, weirdos, and freaks out there looking to make a fast buck. There was a thread on here some time ago where a woman posted about a school that wanted $7000 up front. We talk about schools that guarantee you a black belt in two years (or less!). And yes, we have people who will milk customers for every cent they can with promises which go unfulfilled. Think of us as the Better Business Bureau of Martial Arts.

Personally, and I've said this on other threads, if you are honest and up-front about what you teach, I'll be hard pressed to refer to you as a "McDojo". I know other websites will stick that label on some of the "daycare" dojos, the ones with a lot of kids' classes, and I've always thought that was bull. I have no beef with "fun" or "fitness", just don't pass yourself off as teaching some super-secret deadly Chinese technique when all you're doing is teaching glorified Tae Bo.

 

In my opinion you're wrong here... it should not be about the money, so a contract is BS. If a student is serious enough, you don't have to sign a contract to be sure that he/she keeps training.

We also have a kids class in our school, I do occasionally help out and I enjoy it. Kids love to play, and there is nothing wrong with this.The rest of course, speaks for itself... if it's like an aerobics club and they claim to teach self-defense than it's a definite McD.

 

Ahem. As the resident attorney, I have to add that a lot of those contracts that you all hate have the "waiver of liability" which protects your butts so this way if you knock out one of your classmates you don't find yourself on the receiving end of of a lawsuit. And if your school's owner wants insurance, it's usually required to have such a waiver, which requires that students sign something. At least that's how it works here in the US, Land of the Lawsuits and home of the Big Contingency Fee.

 

Ok, but in The Netherlands where I come from... things are arranged differently.
We are insured by the federation/association of our respective sports... Over here it´s very rare that a club will let you sign a contract... and I'm happy too...