Sikaran & Yaw Yan

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts' started by ranger, Feb 14, 2004.

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  1. ranger

    ranger New Member

    anybody here practicing sikaran or yao yan? are they the same? :)
     
  2. juramentado

    juramentado lean, mean eating machine

    I don't practice either of them but I've seen Yaw Yan and I've seen some Sikaran and I think there are technical differences between the two styles. The roots of both styles are also different.
     
  3. krys

    krys Valued Member

    They are not the same. One guy who used to train with us is a Sikaran master and he showed me some... From what I understood in competitions kicks are only allowed at or above the waist, you cannot punch and hands are only there to parry, it is very acrobatic but competitions often finish with KOs... To my eyes Sikaran is a filipino TKD....

    I see Yaw Yan as a local version of Muay Thai but with more kicks, many different hand strikes also.... some schools added weapon training and groundfighting....
     
  4. shoto-kali

    shoto-kali The Chosen One

    just remember a slogan quote from a very good friend of mine 14yrs ago from MIT, I believe he's a Sikaran practitioner, he's singing slogan quote is;

    "SIKARAN LUMALABAN NG SABAYAN, YAW-YAN UMA-AYAW SA LABANAN"
    sorry if i cant translate to this to english without loosing the rhyme, but its something like, "sikaran fight while yaw-yan backs-out from a fight"

    he said that everytime theres a tournament compitition between the two groups in their province (Aklan) this is the slogan their yelling and it always heat-up the competition
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2004
  5. krys

    krys Valued Member

    I didn't see much Yaw Yan, but it seemed far more combative than Sikaran.....
    One thing I also remember about Sikaran is that they use sacrifice-jumping kicks....
     
  6. Gryphon Hall

    Gryphon Hall Feeling Scholler

    I've seen Sikaran mix well with Arnis/Escrima, but maybe what I saw was a hybrid: yup, kicks at or above the waist, alright, but done only while chambering the stick for another strike. Very confusing, looks like a dance, but it can get a lot of surprise hits since you think that its either the stick or a kick, but the other comes instead. Attack angles also very unpredictable.

    However, I have seen YawYan and it looks like Pananadyakan. I know that YawYan is actually a very new MA, but do you guys agree that they have similar techniques?

    Pax.
     
  7. krys

    krys Valued Member

    What is Pananadyakan?

    Thanks.
     
  8. Silentblade

    Silentblade Silent Death

    I trained Yaw-Yan before. It's like Muay Thai + TKD.
     
  9. ranger

    ranger New Member

    really? there's another kind of this art called Pananadyakan? talking about learning every time I log-in in MAp :) Yup Gryphon Whats Pananadyakan? :) from the word itself it means like kicking right?
     
  10. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    yes, i used to practice with yaw yan (sayaw ng kamatayan) and i have seen sikaran played. there are huge differences in style.

    as for the slogan, i have yet to meet a yaw yan fighter back down from a fight.

    "ang Diyos aking kalasag, at ang aking sandata'y yaw yan" (God is my shield and yaw yan my only weapon).
     
  11. Gryphon Hall

    Gryphon Hall Feeling Scholler

    I found the term Pananadyakan in some book some time ago. I forgot which book, but I am very sure it was a book on JKD or FMA, probably with Dan Inosanto in it. Pananadyakan, literally (as those of you who know Tagalog) means "The Art of Foot Stomping" (actually, "The Thing of Foot Stomping", but "Art" sounds more romantic); it was with Dumog and Sikaran, among others, on a list of MA, the purpose of which I had forgotten. Didn't even think take notice, because, I mean, "foot stomping"? I thought (and please don't kill me) that TKD or Karate would have been more combat effective.

    But when I saw it done, I mean, man! Imagine an art that teaches you techniques to stomp on a persons knees, ankles or even hips! If the assailant can't move, he's "sitting duck". Mixed with defanging stick techniques, it becomes a very crippling art.

    Then I saw this Estregan guy do YawYan, and the founder demonstrate it on TV. They do it very similarly to what I saw Pananadyakan was done, except that they also kick above the waist and throw punches. This "Dance of Death", when used properly, may become the "Dance of Maim".

    I don't know much about the histories of either art, just saw it done. What I wanted to know is whether YawYan evolved from Pananadyakan or otherwise, or whether Pananadyakan is just some invented name. The reason I am interested is because I want to incorporate that particular knee stomping technique.

    Pax (as in, "Peace". My name is Joy)
     
  12. shootodog

    shootodog restless native


    gm napoleon fernandez, founder of yaw-yan footboxing (or so the logo on my old shorts said) evolved this fighting form from what he witnessed in the old underground circuit (a circuit which the yaw yan fighters would eventually join and have some success against other clubs and brotherhoods such as the great bakbakan international).

    some think and feel that yaw yan copied muay thai. there are similarities in both (such as the use of the shins, knees and elbows) yet there are more fundamental technical differences between the two. such as where the pivot of the kick originates (muay thai pivots on the side of the ball and then uses the hip rotation to literally throw the kick whereas yaw yan pivots from the heel much like sikaran but throws the kick half cocked then full out). as a result, yaw yan footwork looks more filipino than the muay thai fighters. a note here that kru robert and kru billy from amtap were both yaw yan practitioners before they moved on to being the greatest muay thai fighters in the philippines.

    i have a vague idea of what gryphon hall speaks of. i read it in a book by dan inosanto. from what i've read there, and from the practical knowledge i know of yaw yan, i can say that they are different. there may be similarities (because of both have that fma thing going) but are not related to one another (i have a suspicion that guro dan inosanto's stockton group were mostly escrimadors and that that pananadyakman is from the visayas).
     
  13. juramentado

    juramentado lean, mean eating machine

    One chracteristic of Yaw Yan that I've observed is their use of unusual kicks like their famous scorpion kick. It's a little hard to explain. It requires a lot of flexibility and can be quite effective if you can pull it off coz of its unorthodox direction.

    I too have heard of nap fernandez's legendary underground fighting background. He's actually a short fellow but one who can seriously whip a lot of ____. :D
     
  14. krys

    krys Valued Member

    That is all part of silat.... then you add foot traps and changes of level and you get a picture of what silat 's knive fighting looks like....
     
  15. ranger

    ranger New Member

    i don't know which is which. is it yaw yan that has the 72 kicks that i've heard? who (sikaran or yaw yan) patterns their hand techniques to the strikes of arnis or baston?

    all this in Filipino MA? ALL HAIL THE FILIPINO MARTIAL ARTS! :cool:
     
  16. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    yes, yaw yan has 72 standard kicks.

    both do. fma (at least most of them) pattern hands to baston movements.

    absolutely! mabuhay ang sining ng mandirigmang pilipino (long live fma!)
     
  17. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    hi krys,

    foot trapping and change level is in the fma styles i've studied. it could be almost universal (i could be wrong so don't shoot me).
     
  18. krys

    krys Valued Member

    Hello Shootdog,


    I didn't see that many changes of levels-foottraps in Arnis compared to filipino silat (studied Doce Pares, Modern Arnis, Innosanto style, a little Doblete Rapilon, and for a few years now Cinco Terros).....
    What fmas did you study?
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2004
  19. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    hi krys,

    you asked me this on pinoymma.com before (or was it some other guy but you posted on the thread as well). i won't go into where i've been. currently i'm with the submission dungeon brotherhood/ 52 and kali de leon (manila).

    as for what you've cited, you may be right. but definitely some others like mongoose, sari-an, yaw-yan, kdm (just to name a a few) have the foot trapping and the change level. i can tell you that we do that at the dungeon.

    i don't know if the movements are similar or the same. i just know that they exist.
     
  20. wanlu99

    wanlu99 Yaw-Yan and MuayThai Fan

    Sikaran versus Yaw-yan

    SIKARAN LUMALABAN NG SABAYAN, YAW-YAN UMA-AYAW SA LABANAN"
    sorry if i cant translate to this to english without loosing the rhyme, but its something like, "sikaran fight while yaw-yan backs-out from a fight"


    This is extremely STUPID!!!

    Just a little anecdote Id like to share with you guys...

    In my years of being with Yaw-Yan, I cant count how many Sikaran fighters went up in the ring against a Yaw-Yan only to lose by TKO or KO...Im dont mean any disrespect to Sikaran but my claims are all documented.

    15 years ago...the time when I was about to retire in Yaw-Yan...I remember an incident when we went to a Sikaran Gym in Manuelas Mandaluyong (As in inside the Sikaran Gym) to fight with no money involve just Honor...Yaw-Yan going to a Sikaran gym to fight and again its documented...No Sikaran fighter has ever done that...even in their own gym they refuse to fight at first to save them from humiliation in front of their students...

    However I have to understand your friend who sang that song...we all have our egos and we are all biassed but mine is documented...and your friend talks to the wind...


    Thanks and again may I suggest we stop posting which style is better specially in the FMA because we all have our egos and it might not be healthy to provoke a fight...

    My respect to any Sikaran fighter here...but Sikaran and Yaw-Yan are two different styles. Yaw-Yan fights head to head with kickboxers and MuayThais here and abroad...Sikaran is more of a TKD style tournament...they fight by themselves...not against other styles and so the atmosphere is more relaxed in their fights. Unlike Yaw-Yan fighters who fight against other styles with honor at stake.

    Just some stories to disprove the claim that Yaw-Yan backs out from fights...

    Yaw-Yan for the longest time had a great rivalry with our honorable friends from Bakbakan International...our Fighters went to thier Gym for fights with again no money involved just honor. The Now Philippine Honorable Congressman Miguel Zubiri was scheduled to fight Zapata that day but changed his mind (probably after seeing the first set of Yaw-yans doing well against their rivals)...Mr Zubiri is wise and thats why hes a Congressman...weve met their fighters in the ring as well and Yaw-Yan's Emiliano Zapata did a great job against a Bakbakan Senior fighter. But that rivalry is gone and theres friendship between the two styles as well as mutual respect.But never will a Yaw-Yan back out from a Bakbakan fighter and I guess a Bakbakan fighter wont back out from a Yaw-Yan too...

    Yaw-Yans are known to go to a diffent style gym...just like the Arjuken Gym by GM Presas which used to be in the 2nd floor and Yaw-Yan in the 3rd floor of the same building...weve had several visits in that gym fighting their fighters in front of their students...those were the days when we were all stupid and un urbanized so to speak...charging to ones gym by mere news of bad mouthing or "paninira sa Yaw-Yan" weve closed down lots of gyms in Manila by charging into them when we hear stories that they are the real Yaw-Yan or that their style is Yaw-Yan but are not properly documented with affiliation papers etc...Some of us are even stupid enough to fight a grappler in an NHB fight when Yaw-Yan is mainly a striking style...but some of our brothers due to the increasing popularity of grappling have incorporated it with yaw-Yan calling the style, Hybrid Yaw-Yan. (There has been news that Yaw-Yan ArDigma is now in the process of training new fighters in Bulacan...Yaw-Yan ArDigma is designed for Mixed martial Arts fights.)

    And so...Rules wise, A Yaw-Yan may lose in a Sikaran tournament and vice versa...but in an all out fight, I may have to go for Yaw-Yan.(Otherwise Im wearing red pants rt now and not my Yaw-Yan shorts)

    ...

    Ive never seen a Sikran fighter in a Mano Mano event or a URCC which are probably the testing ground of our Local Fighters.


    My two cents


    Wanlu
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2004
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