Pressure Points/Kyusho Jitsu in Aikido?

Does aikido teach these, im just wondering.

 

some styles yes some no, its all down to what they leraned from a. Osensei and there influence from other arts.

nuff said.

 

Sometimes is the answer. I'll ocassionally teach them for fun, but some instructors feel that they should only be taught at Yudansha or even instructor level.

I dont really like them because:

They can be difficult to apply
They dont work on everyone
They dont teach Aikido principles as such.

So I sometimes do them for fun.

 

Im just wondering cos I saw a guy who was trained by Steven Seagal briefly use them to good effect and knowing they had some aikido under there belt wondered if they were taught a lot

 

[I don't know what aikido is because I've never studied aikido, so don't listen to me when I talk about aikido.] Pressure points are taught in Jujitsu and Aiki-Jujitsu. They can be difficult to learn. But once you've learned them effectively, they are great to use. They can provide an instant impact in an altercation. I would suggest practicing them wherever you can. [Ditto above.]

 

Aiki-jo... there you go again telling others how 'their' art should or shouldn't be taught. And you are wrong yet again.

Yonkyo - just as a classic example, is typically applied on the radial nerve on the forearm. Please don't dictate what aikido is or isn't when you DON'T even study the art.

Dave

 

My response was 'I don't think you're going to get much pressure point training from Aikido.'. Meaning you may get one or two pressure point examples. But if you want more detailed and more target areas to attack, then you should go elsewhere. I'm well aware of the yonkyo technique. Although that pressure point can be attacked in many more techniques than just that.

 

Some people are veryu much into kyusho and aikido



http://www.kyusho.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001406

http://www.kyusho.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001578

 

aiki-jo: look at the threads listed below and you'l find a list of pressure points used in aikido. I was interested to see kalari uses many of the same ones. Depends on your definition of PP's of course - against nerves or arteries or organs etc etc. Even if we restrict ourselves to nerves, Aikido has plenty - and no, I'm not going to list them again. It's been done in another thread and I'm not doing the reading for you.

 

Fair enough.. I will read the posts... Question for you though would be... Isn't the idea of causing pain against the beliefs of the founder of Aikido? [oops - the non-aikido person ought not tell us what aikido is] And isn't is possible that the person who taught you Aikido, learned kyusho jitsu from someone else? [yet again] I know yankyo is part of the Aikido curiculum, I'll give you that.

 

No.

Here's a polite suggestion, find a school of Aikido which has a proven lineage to any of the following:

TK. Chiba
Y. Yamada
S. Sugano
C. Tissier
W. Smith
Y. Kobayashi
H. Saito
I. Shibata
G. Shoida

Just to name a few people, then study for a few years then, come back to answer your own questions because, If I came to the Jujitsu forum and seriously questioned the validity of DRAJ without first understanding what the art is ACTUALLY about, I'd expect to be accused of trolling and looking like someone ignorant of the facts. If you tell me where you live IE state or city, I can easily find you a credible instructor for you to discuss your opinions with whilst you experience first hand aikido.

Dave

 

aiki-jo,

Why does it matter where a technique is learned from? Seriously, why does it matter to you?

I trained in Aikido and my instructor also taught me some jiu-jitsu variations of the same basic techniques taught in Aikido. What does it matter where she learned them from. She happened to have learned them from her Aikido instructor, but it really does not matter.

The only time it might matter is if someone was trying to be dishonest and say they learned something one way from a particular teacher but they are lying.

I can see that a beginner and intermediate student first needs to build a foundation. That foundation consists mostly of the basics. The basics does not make the total package, after building a good foundation, then comes the refinement, the expansion, and the integration of many different things built on top of that foundation.

Many advanced Aikidoka do not just learn basics, they have good attention to detail and they learn more than they are ever taught, integrating many things together to form their fighting art -- and gaining experience with it all.

Seriously aiki-jo, what would you have black belt level students do?

1. Stand around with static basic drills

2. OR actually go out and learn what they can? Be that learning in pressure points, old school anything goes jiu-jitsu, cross-training, more details to perfect techniques, and actually training against resistance, etc. Integrate what is learned with everything else.

3. None of the above... (please explain what you would have black belt level students do to learn)


If you chose 2 or something close to that, then how can Aikido be limited to what you say? How can Aikido not have students learning pressure points or anything beyond the basics?

 

Don't feed the...


Dave

 

To be honest I would doubt that an art that deals with passive fighting would totally block out pressure points from the curriculum.

And yeh, Aiki Jo its generally not a good idea to try an converse on something you know very very little about

 

Hi mate, just to clarify, the word passive is somewhat incorrect, aikido is very much a proactive system requiring its students to be continually thinking ahead. When techniques are applied thay are done so dynamically, circularly and with spirit. Any half decent aikidoist doesn't need to be attacked before they can effectively utilise their skills.

Regards

Dave

 

lol... now you really ARE showing your ignorance, all of the people on that list bar two, all study one particular form of Aikido, Saito Sensei leads the Iwama-Ryu system and I doubt you'd last more than a day in that dojo, and Gozo Shioda Sensei (now passed away) his system - Yoshinkan is prolly the most severe of all the Aikido ryu yet, they all learned their craft from once source the Ueshiba family.

And as fars as Aikido being "limited" only one's imagination limits the potential for anything. Perhaps you should open your eyes a bit ?

 

grumble... life is full of contradictions. Aikido philosophy can be said to address contradictions. Aikido in action should be without internal conflicts. Many do not want to maim or hurt even when they may most need to for their own survival. Aikido teaches to act with clear thought and purpose, this can be with the use of deadly force when appropriate but can also be with lesser levels of force.

So what is this contradiction you find in Aikido?

What amazes me sometimes is your insistance that a system should be limitless. If it was limitless it would not be a system. All a system is, is a way to build a foundation. Anything beyond that foundation does not have to be part of the system but can be ANYTHING learned.

No one in Aikido is limited except beginners and intermediates, once they are advanced, they can only limit themselves with close minded thinking. Aikidoka may be accused of being closed minded at times because of how specialized the system is, but nothing stops an Aikidoka from expanding beyond the base system AND perfecting the technique and understanding of those things introduced in the base system of Aikido.

It does not matter if is part of Aikido or something else, it is all still martial arts.

Again, the Aikido system is only for building foundation, what is done and learned over and beyond that foundation is totally open and not limited.

What seems to be such a problem with an Aikidoka learning to move and think in an Aikido like manner, then building on that foundation and perfecting technique beyond that. They are still called Aikidoka if they continue to train in Aikido, but they aren't some green belt anymore, but an advanced student of martial arts so they can learn whatever works and does not cause internal conflicts.

I would tell a black belt to get better technique and work on it until they did. Blackbelts don't need principles as much as they need real world experience to back up what they have learned, so they can continue to learn and improve.

This is, of course, a trick answer, because in order to improve on technique and make it work in real situations, the understanding of principles has to be there. So by learning and experiencing hands on, the student will discover the need to understand the underlying principles. Then a student will be motivated to learn principles AND improve techniques.

To me, just telling someone to learn principles is like me telling my son to study hard in college. How many teenagers really know what that means -- very few until they actually go to college and party too much and the grades drop. I'd rather have my son learn how to study hard, then find his own good reasons/motivations to actually do it.

Again, again, Aikido as well as any system, even mixed systems like what I teach, are all just to build a foundation. The tip of the iceberg above water (10%), it is the other part of the iceberg underwater (90%) that is the real stuff and it has to be learned and discovered beyond that foundation.

Aikido is the same, in my opinion, all that you see and make judgements of Aikido, aiki-jo, is only the tip of the iceberg.

I'm sure you have gone beyond a foundation in what you train in to explore other things too not seen by the general public and beginner students, since you have trained a long time. I hope you can appreciate that an Aikido student can learn more than the basics, and that O'Sensei knew this as well and encouraged it.