where did martial arts origin from

some might say it is from all over the world and to a degree it might be true

but for a good portion of it came from one specific place


i have only heard of 2 choices, the shaolin monks or tibet from the tibet. i have heard that bohisttva opened the idea up to the shaoling monks and i have heard that the tibetans only showed a small portion of what they know and the shaoling monks did the best they could.


just wondering what you all think?

 

you might try the egyptians, seeing as how they had cities when everyone else was running around naked in the desert.

 

yeah I think the Egyptians left proof of martail arts, Ive seen murlas of stick fighting and i ve heard of other fight displayed such as wrestling. So yeah the Egyptians might have teh oldest documentable MA, and it makes sense because that is where humanity first started and spread from, Africa not Egypt which is part of Africa you get the idea.

 

Actually I have and continue to research this.

Martial arts go way beyond in past history than Shaolin. (By the way much of that is legend and folklore tales told via raconteurs and written like Grimm's)

India has much ancient culture as Egypt. (Egypt isnt the only culturral/social structure. Sure they built large cities, but this cannot soley define them as the oldest.)

And Iran/Irag/Persia have as much as India also.

The martial arts is man vs man. Not so simply as stone-age man (tribe) vs stone age man (tribe)

The term martial, being Mars/warlike, and arts, the study of, martial arts could also be defined as any system of fighting/defense, under one category.
(Websters has it defined inappropriately. And why not, its editors and researchers are probably not martial artists and did not disect the wording per eytmology.)

Hence, and such system that can be taught, or have one trained, under a system fo war/fighting, is a martial art.

Since martial arts were developed systems of man against man, than it has developed almost since cultured/social man agianst another cultured social man. (Cultures social meaning a large human dewelling of cultural and social exchanges, not tribal)

 

I would have made that bvery same point but Im a big beleiver of hunamity spreading from Africa so yea, we are violent and intelligent so we would have systemized ways to fight very rapidly I owuld think. And since, IMO, we all came from one place originally that would be where MA started.

But its basically this
Man is violent
Man is smart
Man is lazy
MAn will use smarts to discover to fastest adn easiest way to kill other people, or animals.


And very good point about teh bad way they now have martial arts defined in dictionaries, considering Martial arts was used as early the 17th century in Europe, and not to describe the funky asian fighitng.

 

But, humanity didn't spread from Africa. You are speaking of anthropology, which isn't the same as cultural and social development. The bones of man, or evolution of man, isnt the same as a functioning culture and social order of man. Stone age man could not teach each other a structure of warfare. Bascially they pick up a club or stones and used them with the response as chimps. Cuturally and socially speaking, it strarted in the Middle East, matched only with India.

 

um I think we are getting off topic. i suppose two dudes going at it with a stick could be considered martial arts but i was looking for something more in depth.

lets try taking weapons of the topic please, and

Is Egypt considered to be a perticipant in the development of jujitsu, acupuncter or the supposed death touch techniques?


i dont want to seem like an butt, it is nice to think outside the box with the whoile, WE ALL CAME FROM AFRICA stuff but i was looking for something more in depth.

 

i am pretty sure that egyptian martial arts where a little more advanced than two guys hitting each other with a stick. this is a dumb question- pretty much every culture has its own martial arts, the oldest cultures have the oldest MAs which may or may not have influenced the countries that developed around them.

 

I mean culturally also. Unless you are one of those pepol that beleive that tone age man was stupid by virtue of the fact they lacked high technology. I acutally beleive them to be SMARTER on average than the average modern person. Have you ever tried to make a weapon out stone? Let alond find the right rocks to use. Or try to make fire with rocks and sticks. or plan out an amubush with primitive hand held weapons on larger more dangerous animals than yourself?
I think that any creature smart enough to band together and creat complex tools as well as objects of art is a creature that would have culture. So the fact that man began in Africa also measn the first culture of man began in Africa as well the first martial arts.

And jsut fyi here is evidence of acupuncture being used by stone age to bronze age man in Europe before it was documented in China.


And ill try to find some images online of the murals showing stick fighting and wrestling althouh i do belive a few poepl have broguht this up perviously. Do a search for egypt and you might find some links.

 

basically i agree with this post.

i will however venture forth the influences that carried from one place to another. summaria-->babylonia-->egypt (& the rest of the middle east)-->greece-->macedonia-->india-->china-->rest of asia.

 

Two dudes going at each other with sticks is not martial arts, per the etymology of wording.

And no, Egypt is not the oldest of cultural/social order.

And no, we did not all come from Africa. This has been a tale from some scientists whom uncover bones of certain human species. It is not the tell-tale origin of martial arts.

One must not confuse systems of cultured/social methods of fighting verses anthropology.

You want something in depth, research India, Persia, Iran, Irag, cultural and social orders.

If you want something specific as the tell all tale on the origins, there isnt any. I must again, point to the explanation of martial arts, as you will see has no single origin-
The term martial, meaning Mars/warlike, and arts, the study of, martial arts could also be defined as any system of fighting/defense, under one category.

Hence, and such system that can be taught, or have one trained, under a system for war/fighting, is a martial art.

Therefore search many cutural/social subjects of humanity. per large gatherings of people, not limited to scant tribal nomads. Per Indian, Mespotonian, Persian, Greek, Roman, China, etc.

India's social/cultural order has been going back as long as Egypt's, although the Egytians left large momuments. (The Oldest Village, Mehgarh 6,000 BC
and The Early Harappan 4,000 BC to 3,000 BC)


If you want to limit your search beyond Shaolin Zi, search India Warrior Caste/Buddhism.

Though your member name tends to India's Vedic Castes.

 

you forgot Atlantis



I agree with Ikken

 

Really, altough stome age man was smart, how can they teachc each other how to fight? Per a system of methods.

Man beginning in Africa, has no bearing on a cultural/social structure to teach and learn a system of fighting.

I often see threads like the Africa/Stone age man being the earliest martial artists. Making a few tools out of stone and swinging them wildly does not constitute as a martial art-system of fighting to be taught and learned.

If that is the case, chimps and apes swing sticks also.

 

The original martial arts were created by manlike apes several million years ago. Since then, all martial arts have worked to rediscover what those apes knew instinctively.

 

Yes, it is instinctively a issue to close the fist and do a punch and then beat the chest.

How easy to say that manlike apes performed martial arts.
Without knowing their cultural/social trends.

Yeah, kinda reamains me of Planet of the Apes. They had armor.

 

Ok, but when a stone aged man shared what he had learned empirically with his offspring, surely that would be a martial system?

 

which is what i said earlier, but logic hardly makes for an exciting discussion aiki

 

True, but they were culturely/socialy more advance that a caveman.

 

Just a very quick & very controversal point:

If the Africans & or the Indians were the creators of martial arts etc...

How come they all got their butts kicked by a handful of european settlers?

And anyway it is not fact at all that the cradle of humanity is Africa.
This is just speculation.

Oooooooh! Am I gonna get it for this post!!!!!