UFC and the Ninja?

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Jim Kelly, Jun 10, 2005.

  1. Jim Kelly

    Jim Kelly New Member

    How come Ninjutsu did so poorly in the UFC?
     
  2. Dale Seago

    Dale Seago Matthew 7:6

    I hadn't heard it was ever used.

    If you're thinking of Robert Bussey's students, the fact is that Bussey trained only on a limited and superficial level; and he hybridized the little he learned with all kinds of other stuff in what he taught -- mostly stuff depending on speed and strength for success -- to make up for that.

    He was a shodan one day in Japan, and a yondan the next, and not because he was considered phenomenal. Back in those days, as a gesture of appreciation for people making the effort to come and train in Japan and also as an encouragement to "keep going", Hatsumi sensei used to give out shodan ranks to foreigners just for showing up.

    Nagato sensei, who's one of the instructors besides Hatsumi sensei I always train with when I'm in Japan, reluctantly gave a yondan to Bussey so he could sit for the godan test. If he passed, he'd then have a full teaching license. Bussey then left Japan with his yondan rank, without taking the test, and never went back.
     
  3. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Jesus help 'im! :eek:

    Jim Kelly you are on a roll with the Ninja questions!!! :D

    Because the focus of Ninjitsu is not competition fighting.

    Because many of the types of strikes/attacks that are part of Ninjitsu are not allowed in a MMA competition.

    Because there are no weapons allowed.

    This list can go on and on... but those are several of the biggest reasons I can think of.
     
  4. Satori81

    Satori81 Never Forget...

  5. Topher

    Topher allo!

    Winner UFC 3 - Steve Jennum. His style Ninjitsu.

    Ok, so he was a alternate, but still :D
     
  6. Grimjack

    Grimjack Dangerous but not serious

    Steve Jennum was a Robert Bussey student.

    Bussey had trained with the head of the Bujinkan for a very short while. But despite calling what he did ninjutsu, it really was a mixed martial art.

    Kind of like how Bruce Lee studied fencing, but you would be hard pressed to find someone who could claim to have learned fencing from him.

    What Robert Bussey does may have merit. But it does not have much in common with what you see in the Bujinkan from Japan.
     
  7. saru1968

    saru1968 New Member

    ??????????????????????????

    but his website http://american-ninjutsu.com/history.shtml

    says 'Mr. Bussey received his instructor license from Soke Masaaki Hatsumi'

    which i thought was Godan, i am confused. What is his current grade?

    Gary

    :)
     
  8. Grimjack

    Grimjack Dangerous but not serious

    Bussey seems to be stretching the truth a bit.

    I have heard that Bussey would not take the godan test due to problems with his form of Christianity. That is the excuse he gives for not training in the Bujinkan longer than he did. So he could not have been a full instructor. Maybe a shidoshi-ho, and assistant instructor, but not a fully qualified teacher.

    There was a few threads about this on martialtalk.com when one of their moderators was a Rick Tew guy. He kept trying to make the case that Bussey taught his teacher ninjutsu, and everyone else pointed out that Bussey couldn't have. It got pretty messy. But in the end the Tew moderator left in a huff and references to Bussey and Tew were moved to the bad budo section.
     
  9. snake_plisskin

    snake_plisskin Valued Member

    Interestingly, the APOCRYPHAL story I heard re: Robert Bussey was this:

    He was doing some kind of training exercise outdoors with Hatsumi and various others, whilst wearing a white belt. Noticing how he stood out like a shining beacon in the graying sky, Hatsumi basically handed him a black belt and said, "Here, put this on." Bussey mistook that to mean that Hatsumi had just given him a sort of "field commission" then and there, when in fact, the belt was only given to him as a way to help him "blend in" better.

    Again, that is only a very apocryphal story, with no basis in fact, nor do I recall exactly who told me that--I think it was someone at the '97 Tai Kai we ate lunch with!

    Just figured I'd toss that into the "ring", heh heh.

    --Snake
     
  10. tekkengod

    tekkengod the MAP MP

    one word.
    pressure testing.

    a few more words.
    the early UFCs had pure strikers vs pure grapplers. not hard to see who was going to win those.
     
  11. Dale Seago

    Dale Seago Matthew 7:6

    Exactly. You can be a shidoshi-ho at 1st through 4th dan, under the supervision of a full shidoshi. Once you reach 5th dan, you ain't gotta be nobody's -ho no mo'.

    He has no grade, as he has not been a Bujinkan member for many years.
     
  12. Peaceful Tiger

    Peaceful Tiger Happy Member

    I'm glad you train regularly with Nagato. I always thought he was a bit rough but a really nice guy, he did hold a good Sunday afternoon class. I always enjoyed the 'wee ones' like Noguchi and Oguri Sensei and Senou because they were more my size and at least if I saw them do a technique on a guy the size of Ed Lomax, then I knew for sure it would work on big guys like you....wrong way of thinking and philosopy I know, but it just reinforced the fact to me that it doesn't matter what size you are :D
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2005
  13. Dale Seago

    Dale Seago Matthew 7:6

    Actually, it's usually "best -ho in my stable". :D

    Another quick off-topic digression, to April of 2002. I and my wife have just been through Soke's Sunday class, and we're getting ready for Nagato's. While I'm chatting with some buyu, Ter slips over to sit down with Nagato and Ed Lomax and talk with them. What I don't know is that she's informing Nagato that it's my birthday, and that in the US we have the tradition of the celebrant getting a spanking. Nagato smiles grimly, nods, and smacks his fist into his palm. . .

    Class starts, and Nagato calls me up to demonstrate something to work on and "set the tone" for things via the first technique.

    After which, I was his only uke for the entire class. :eek: He even turned all the lights inside the Hombu on so Ter could get pictures. :p

    BTW, Noguchi is my other "most favorite shihan" to train with. For me, Nagato and Noguchi epitomize the samurai and the ninja, respectively. :cool:
     
  14. Lord Spooky

    Lord Spooky Banned Banned



    Er one word????? :confused: :confused: :D :D :D
     
  15. tekkengod

    tekkengod the MAP MP


    :bang: 2 words. :bang: oops.
     
  16. Lord Spooky

    Lord Spooky Banned Banned

    I still chuckle at what Norman said about if we wanted to compete we'd just break in the night before and nick the prizes :D :D
     
  17. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    lol.
    as stupid as it is funny.
     
  18. Brad Ellin

    Brad Ellin Baba

    Think about it, if we really wanted to compete, we'd just make sure that our hardest opponents would have "accidents" just prior to the bout. Nothing life threatening, just say, oh, both knee caps smahed to pulp in a freak refridgerator accident.... or a mysterious case of severe dysentary the day before..... then, either he'd be so debilitated and easily beaten by a six year old armed with a feather duster, or we'd win by default.
     
  19. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

    LOL kurohana! hahaha!

    Ah, this is the side of martial arts so few people understand. Testing ones strength doesnt always have to be a dueling/1 vs. 1 fight.
     
  20. Tudoggz

    Tudoggz Valued Member

    been ages since i have posted here lol but here i go

    when ever people ask questions like this i always wonder why dont any ninjutsu people compete?

    well i think its because were not trained for competition or following rules. and i know everyone always says this hehe and people think were making excuses but meh i dont care.

    also i think it has something to do with, maby we will call it "reason". Me getting in the ring and fighting just to prove my technques or art isnt going to be enough. When i think about doing that i dont feel that same "fire" or total confidence i get, when i think about gettin jumped in the street and having my life in danger. I mean, when it really counts, I know in my heart I would have what it takes to escape or take out the threat.

    I just dont have that same confidence or feeling when i think of competition fighting, or even if i had started the fight over nothing and there was no "reason" behind it. I would loose. Since there is no "fire" there.

    I dont know if i have made any sense or stayed on topic but any thoughts on what im saying people??

    cheers
    mick
     

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