I remember reading in a book that the Ninja practiced something called "mystic hand positions" or something. Generally they looked like various interlockings of the fingers, etc. that clearly would not have had any direct fighting applications. Did the ninja really use these? Are they for meditation? They remind me somewhat of the mudras in yoga or hand positions in Qigong, i.e. designed to stimulate various qi meridians during practice. This leads me to my next question, which is, "do Ninjutsu practitioners cultivate qi as in qigong (ki in Japanese)?" I know Aikido claims to make use of ki, but from what I've seen of it their idea of ki is more like coordination of breath and movement, rather than an internal energy that circulates around the body and which can be moved by the will alone. Do any Ninjutsu people here practice these hand positions? Are they for meditation or something else? Does Ninjutsu include anything similar to Qigong? Anyway, any info would be much appreciated.
Ello, Can't comment much on that but I will say that I thought that Qi in chinese MA was slightly different to the Ki of Japanese arts???? Anyone???
search the forum for 'kuji-in' and 'kuji-kiri' and you'll find some usefull (and some not-so-usefull) discussions about these phenomena yes, the commonest interpretation of the finger-interlocking is that it derived from esoteric buddhist practice, namely applying the use of mudra's used during contemplation to other area's associated with the psychology and physiology of the adept. This is a contraversial topic though and the commonest response you will get is that if such practices are part of ninjutsu they will only be passed on under direct tuition from an experienced practitioner. I'm not being deliberatley obtuse...check the past threads and you'll find some ideas there.
perhaps...but energy is energy, regardless of how we dress it up...fundamentally the Internal Martial Arts are singing from the same page, but culture which evolves under the contraint of environment will colour and flavour interpretations of the same energy in different ways. Differences percevied through examination of the details blur into insignificance as we draw back and take in the bigger picture.
My instructor makes frequent reference to Ki and energy direction. He also has a lot of experience in Aikido, which probably has something to do with it. He explains that everything in Ninpo stems from the direction of our Ki...but he basically cuts the cord of "ki" to mean spiritual focus and intensity, rather than mysterious "Dim Mak" stuff. In other words, the reason I get smacked with a shinai for not having a straight toe alignment in Ichimonji no Kamae has nothing to do with formality, but because I am diffusing my Intention (Ki) in a different direction than my opponent. I am also told to maintain my Intensity/Zanshin (Ki) until the opponent visibly submits. We also do "Qi Gong-ish" breathing exercises, which may or may not be included in our standard syllabus. As for Kuji-Kiri...the only thing similar we do goes with the formal bowing hand positions. Tenryaku Uchu Gassho Rei, Hanno Bon Itsu Gassho Rei, etc... To mystic hand hypnotisms in my group. May you achieve Satori
Didn't Hatsumi once say when asked about ki- "are you breathing? That is ki". Something like that. But (and I'm really struggling now), didn't Manaka do an article on the 5 (I think) types of ki? Any Jinenkan bods help me out here?
As far as I am aware 'Ki' is just energy attuning and directing energy flow but has a whole set of different applications and can be used for a whole variety of purposes. No doubt someone will correct me if I am wrong.
lol those lil hand things are hand seals.i know people meditate with hand positions like that. but i dont think they can do anything with there "KI" becuz they are humans, not wizards.
Bravo!!! What a real uneducated post! Why do you think its still around? for a hobby? for some people this is real maybe the people on here may never get to that level but what about Hatsumi? do you think he does it to practise his knitting stitches?
Having a focused mind will direct your ki through your intentions "where the mind goes the ki goes and where ki goes the blood follows." of course that’s internally done, blood/body. At least that’s what an internal Qigong practitioner would say, with the exception of replacing the word "ki" with "chi".
I read something about the kuji kiri a while ago. It's probably fiction but anyway. It said that in feudal Japan, if someone walked passed a ninja with their hands in one of the positions of the kuji kiri, that they would pass out. But it wasn't actually the "ninja magic" that caused the person to pass out, but their own superstitious fear. I know the hand signs/seals were done to make the ninja feel stronger before doing something(me think ) but, I just thought I 'd share that with you as I think it's funny. :Angel:
Informed reading: http://www.geocities.com/fascin8or/jsp_kuji.htm http://www.deathandhell.com/corpus/enchantment/kujikiri.html The "tenth cut" it refers to is 'juu-ji' pm me for more info
I have been practicing the kuji-in art for many years and there is more to it than the hand positions and the mantra. There is a reason why it takes an initiation from a master or competent teacher because there is stuff that cannot be thought by only intellectual means, it is more a felt experience, a guided lessons adapted to the psyche of each student. Kuji-in is a spiritual experience that will have no effect if a seeker only wants to have a power trip, but someone with intentions of knowing himself more, in an attitude of self questioning will find the effects of the kuji-in art most powerful, and some side effects will be the physical attributes that we usualy seek: strength, quickness, feeling movement and environment, awareness,... Most websites simply throw the physical hand positions and the full mantra, which in itself is next to useless without the background phylosophy, the spiritual concpet that will fuel it and plug you to the energy source. Once practiced with efficiency, with all aspects combined, you don't know how much wonderful this art can produce enhancing effects, make you feel lighter, the chi litteraly fills your body. The "Dragons of Justice" website has more information than the usual sites, since it is not a power-trip ninjutsu site but an esoteric school. http://www.dragonsofjustice.org. There is lots of informations there, free for the begginer, and PDF books, and on-line consulting,... i've learned there.
Ello, I said hi in your intro but thougth I say lo again!! Why not tell us about you Kuji experience, who did you learn it from???
Shared experience and frustration. Hello to you too! The following is my own experience of kuji-in practice. The first steps of the kuji-in art is simply to learn the ritual basics (mudra, mantra, mandala). It helps the mind and the body to adapt for future energy bursts. When people stop there, they might get 10% of the kuji-in effect. They say it works, but they dont want to go further, since in would implicate self-observation, and a form of personal growth that they don't need (they say!) Then, a phylosophy and spiritual concept is contemplated while doing the ritual practice, to produce awakening. Consciousness starts to expand and it is observed by reactions of "Ho! i didn't know that before, it's so easy to learn!" type of thing. Chi immediately starts to work with the body structure to reconstruct broken energy channels, and this is felt by temperature rise and subit drop, random itching, subit mood changes in a few minutes and then back to normal... After not so long, everything gets better, all seems more clear, and as the step by step (1 to 9) process is learned, each new step grants a bit of it's supposed ability. The change is immediate, of course, but not completely mastered in a few minutes. The change becomes obvious even if it offers light sensations and progressive new abilities, new perception, but to get the greater results, it can take quite a while. It was motivating to me, to feel energy burst from time to time, then it took a few weeks, at 5 to 15 minutes of practice per day, to feel new changes. After a few years, i am still learning from the kuji-in practice, since it is an art, a progressive tool of growth at every level, where the physical enhancements are only side-effects to please the mind. The strength, the quickness, the alertness, the constant lite feeling,... are all there at some level. The more a specific kuji-in technique is practiced, the greater the specific enhancement occurs for this technique. Those who practice a lot of RIN (1st step) will get stronger, but only by practicing SHA (4th step) will the strength become exponentially powerful. The commonly known description of kuji-in are only the side effects (RIN = strength, SHA = healing,...) but the real description of every step is completely different and it can only be experienced along the path. I would love to say everything, but it cannot be described. If i put words on all of my experience, someone who did not experience the phenomena for himself would only be saying "what a weird and stupid thing :Alien: ". If you never experiences surnatural phenomenas, you might not understand or beleive a thing i say. I would rather share the part that can be understood. If i say someting like "i am completely aware and conscious that i am spirit within body", your mind would interpret with the experience it has, and might not grasp what i am experiencing. You mind might even discard then entire testimonial as "That guy is just ****ed up" or "in your dreams pal". Someone who did not experience something can hardly admit it can exist for someone else. Kuji-in is such a powerful art that it has been discarded by those who do not have the will to discover it :bang: . Some say it is a show to impress, others say it is gimmick . So much people say that it can only be learned within a set of privileged conditions (competent master, 9 years of study...) that they discard the actual possibilites that some people might have learned it. There are (supposingly) 3,800 schools that teach kuji-in, all difering a bit depending on language, tradition, transformation over thousands of years, when someone sees a little difference from one technique to another, they imagine it is entirely corrupted. The ritual aspect differs from school to school, and no true student minds that, since the profound technique is the same in teaching, and different for everyone. I say a lot of people speak of kuji-in and never took the time to discover the depts of it. I might be posting more about kuji-in, especialy for those who realy wish to get down to it, but you can trust me to simply go away if i receive blasts of incredulity and comparative arrogance. Kuji-in being hindu in origins, and fundamentaly buddhist as it spred in the world, the schools of ninjutsu who discard the spiritual path are the lowest and least efficient place to learn about it, while it is a blessing for a ninjutsu school to have a faithful and spiritual master. Kuji-in is a celebration of the body, a celebration of the mind, the soul and the spirit. It is a calling for truth, a ritual of love in the existance :love: , a blessing of the human experience . I wish for people to learn and be happy of themselves, to attain new heights and become more than what they are. This is my shared experience about kuji-in.
wow heck of a post I'm going to have to read it a few times I think. Who did you learn from? Oh and do you have any experience in Ninjutsu???
