Son of Trulkor

As I indicated in another post, I think it would be wonderful if this art does in fact exist and can be verified. I'd like to kick this thread off by repeating my final post from the original thread, and hopefully we can get some meaningful discussion going:

Jim, would you care to address this?

 

I too would like to read intelligent dialogue amongst the MAP participants. This topic really is quite interesting, even if un-verifiable...as I've already gleaned some interesting historical information.

Sorry, but I'm in the dark when it comes to these arts you all speak of, but I sit in anticipation of what will hopefully follow....

Cheers,

DH

 

Ever feel like someone is taking you for a mug?

 

For whatever it's worth, Iain, I don't think he's intentionally doing so.

[off-topic]BTW, I haven't gotten the whisky yet -- hopefully I'll see Kalifallen at Buyu Camp next weekend!! [/off-topic]

 

Glad you remembered, hmmm, now I'm sure Kalifallen said that her Dad enjoyed that Single Malt in a nice tumbler with ice and topped with 7Up or Sprite....or erm, Gatorade

Just kidding, I'm sure Kali's kept it for you.

 

Sorry, I don’t check this website daily.

Trulkor has an oral tradition with a few exceptions of some scrolls showing its unique angles. I know its a rare art which unfortunately seems to sow allot of doubt in people who feel that they know allot about the martial arts but this art has been documented and anyone who might think its a fictional art can look it up and find some, although limited bits of information on the art or they yoga practice, you can even find diagrams in books of paintings on walls in Tibet showing the breathing exercise and yoga positions of Trulkor.

I also know that when people hear about something but have never seen it tend to believe that that there is no such thing, even more so if they consider themselves a Professional or Scholar in the subject. Yes there are allot of gullible people in world of martial arts so discernment is important to use for determining if what they hear is on the up and up. So I don't mind the display of doubt as long as it’s within a minimal amount of respectful questioning.

Anyways, the art was taught to me within a Chinese family system which accumulated many martial arts, right before we learned Trulkor we where going over 8 Bagua sets and diving into combat Taiji, Trulkor was taught after a year into training. We where told that its a Tibetan system which gives your opponent the illusionary effect of being a ghost through the use of illusionary angling and motions witch would blur facial features along with avoiding physical contact on defense by using evasive body and foot maneuvering. It also contains countenance and environmental principles of concealment which from what I've only heard about from a friend who was taking Bujinkan Ryu Ninpo along with some pictures from Masaaki Hatsumi as for links to Ninpo we were told about trulkorists being poor would sometimes stay with ninpo family members while traveling through Japan and through this contact they would share their arts. Trulkor was orally backdated to be thousands of years old and most I’ve learned about its connections to Ninjutsu are through the writings of Stephen K. Hayes, a well-known expert on Togakure Ninjutsu.

Its forms are Unique in the sense that out of over a hundred martial arts I've researched none of them seem to have these movements which define Trulkor and its "Ghost Effect" while fighting. This art truly lives up to its name in the sense that it works. I love Trulkor, I'm glad I've learned it and I'm happy I can teach it. At the least it's just another martial art form I can practice and teach that helps to spice up my martial arts experiences.

 

Oh man, this is going to be like clubbing a baby seal.

That right there just made my day and put a smile on my face.

Let the bloodletting begin!

 

Did any Trulkorists visit western Europe particularily Scotland because I was wondering if this could explain the links between medieval Greenoch techiques and Nijutsu.

 

Hey Grimjack why don’t you tell us what you know about Ninjutsu or Ninjutsu society and then tell me why Tibetan travelers, traveling through Rural Japan would never receive help by Ninpo "Heart over Sword" members, and then comment.

Even esoteric, hidden arts are shared among friends or even commoners, you've heard of Ninjutsu haven't you.

 

Adouglashmhor, I don’t know.

 

calm down grim

nothing he has said thus far warants a beheading so keep the katana in its saya for now

Before you start the SKH ranting off again, please remember that people can be misinformed about ninjutsu by doing genuine research into ninjutsu. If someone is quoting Hayes believing they are quoting ninjutsu lore then that is not their fault. His 'forefront of western ninjutsu' tag-line is on nearly all his books and this claim has never been challenged legally. Thus those who don't happen upon a 'truer source' are not at fault.

From what's been posted by jim so far, it seems he has had some personal training in a Tibetan system of combat with elements that may or may not be linked to ninpo/japan.

He has said it is an oral tradition. Now I know us techno-heads of the information age are used to everything being recorded and verified, oral tradition is what kept us going for thousands of years. It is inhenrent within such traditions that the stories grow long and tall, but the inner message is always preserved.

So lets not kill another thread with pointless circular arguments about lineage and share what we know about the most important aspects of the martial arts...namely the training and the spirit.

Jim...you have the floor...some Trulkor folkstories by the fireside could be just what we all need...

 

Can you give some evidence or documentation of Tibetans travelling to Japan? Japan was a very closed society and did not take to kindly to foreigners. Tibet was even worse about letting "just anyone" leave the country. forgive me if I seem doubtful, but I figure I would have heard rumours about Trulkor long before this. Oral traditions are always suspect, because one can add anything, truth or not, into an oral tradition and if you (as a student) question it, then you are given holy heck about it.

Can you list some resources? They don't have to be internet, some books for instance, that I can find the information in?

 

Ya, Mind of Ninja co written by Stephen K. Hayes that is the biggest written source that I've ran into regarding Trulkor. Trulkor people made it customary to learn all they could about a society or village before entering into it, dress, demeanor, mannerisms, they are artists and actors in the sense of social concealment, they wanted to stay hidden so they mainly did just that traveling was much safer that way, and their goals had more to do with Tibetan Buddhism then war or fame.

 

this is confusing the hell out of me!!

Can some one sort fact from fiction out of the following for me plz?

SKH wrote extensively about his understanding of both Hatsumi's Bukinkan and his own research into Japans spiritual past. Tibet is mentioned in numerous places both in connection with ninjutsu/ninpo and in connection with Mikkyo Buddhism. Before the SKH/Hatsumi split became an issue, the two men talked and SKH consulted Hatsumi on the history of the art. Now did SKH just invent the Tibetan link, or did Hatsumi, at that time, express belief and knowledge of such a link?

If he did then, why doesn't he now?

If he never did, what would motivate SKH to invent such an elaborate fiction? It can't just be money or recognition, because he had no need to bend the facts, whatever facts were presented in his writing, his books would have sold, he trained in Japan and Hatsumi was grading him based upon his understanding and competance in the art, so he had validity.

Why now are people within Bujinkan so skeptical of Tibetan links? Has Hatsumi made a statement on the subject? Or is the problem that Hatsumi never made a statement in the firstplace...it all just came out of the mind of Hayes?

Help please...

 

When I learned Trulkor I never heard of Stephen K. Hayes or Hatsumi, in fact in a 9 year period we only talked about Ninjutsu twice in class, once about Ninjutsu members killing anyone who thought they where spying on there art from warring clans “or something like that” and two that some forms of Ninjutsu have roots in Trulkor for reasons stated earlier about Trulkor practitioners who would travel outside of Tibet. We never learned Ninjutsu or anything real about It just happened to read up on martial arts and came across some references to Trulkor from Ninjutsu Writers namely Hayes.

 

jim, just so you don't get jumped on...

SKH didn't co-write Mind of the Ninja...he wrote the forward and (from memory) he says that;

'while i don't neccesarily agree with the authors interpretation of some aspects of the art i fully support his right to express it' (or words to that effect)

i think what Kurohana was looking for was some historical documentation which supports the idea that their was an interplay of ideas, brought about by direct contact through travel, between the Tibetans and the Japanese about 1000 years ago.

I don't think its such a fantastical suggestion personally. There are always people who live on the outside of societies narrow set of rules. From all the stuff I've read and my own 'gut-feeling' about how the facts and interpretations seem to combine is as follows...

Ninpo itself seems to be a philosophy developed outside the mainstream Japanese society, probably by ascetics and monks who choose to live in the less hospitable regions of Japan. It is possible that these philosophical ideas gradually came into contact with the samuarai who saw their potential for application in the arts of war and combat hence, the art was developed by a 'counter-culture', but not in the sense of a rebellious force seeking to overthrow the samurai reign, but as an independent growth of ideas which occured away from the society as a whole. Instead, these ideas became one of the many arts which intertwined throughout Japans history.

I assume that all Bujinkan members are still happy with what is written in 'Essence of Ninjutsu' by Hatsumi in 1988?

Then can I just raise a couple of minor points...the portion of the conversation between Hatsumi and Takamatsu on pages 21/22

T: ...'besides, winners might have left records to their advantage, revisions of actual events that make them more benevolant than they really were. This is very important when researching the history of the ninja. On the other hand, information handed down by word of mouth can often survive'

....


T:...'if we judge based on records only, we may commit a grave blunder'

 

Everything I stated here was ether told to me by my Instructor or read in books and a bit of it on Trulkor Yoga, which I found on the net.

As for the art we Learned 2 Sword Sets Single and Double sword and a bunch of fighting patterns. All of these skills were taught with style rules that make up the arts footwork/stepping and maneuvering along with its "Ghosting" Ghost Effect. It’s a very sophisticated art along with a very natural power base, it’s a fast art with allot of whipping and slight of hand, it feels allot like Chinese Internal Arts but the movements definitely aren’t Chinese.

 

Ya, maybe its just that the only people that know about Trulkor are those practicing the Martial Art or the Yoga Exercises, basically Tibetans or those who claim that there is a link between the art of Ninpo and Tibet, especially Trulkor. I don't know why Ninjutsu writers have written about it I just know that the only other art that has anything to say about Trulkor is Ninjutsu.

 

Who was your instructor? Where does he/she teach? I did a search. All that comes up are Yoga sites or sites which are blocked on my military computer. They're blocked because they all had to do with games. My impression was that the only people giving this any type of thought are adolescents that are fantasizing and speculating without any more knowledge than a mention in a "Ninja" book or what they have heard other people talk about on boards. So far, except for the yoga aspect, everyone that is talking about it seems uninformed and making up stories to sound impressive.

 

lol, speculating isn't fantasizing and applying some imagination to a discussion doesn't make someone an adolescent

How does knowledge propogate through our society? Oh yeah, people discuss things and write things down in books. Then they quote what they read and/or heard. Then it gets verified by peer-review or it gets dismissed.

Isn't that what we're doing?

I'm giving this 'any kind of thought' because aside from training in ninjutsu for the last 11years, i have an interest in the esoteric aspects of religion from a psychological and philosophical perspective, i have a special interest in Tibet and Tibetan Buddhist practice for a number of reasons;

1- some of their yogic and meditative practices provide an excellent way to cope with chronic, permenant back pain

2- the political implications of the wests failure to intervene against the attempted genocide of the tibetan people since the early 1950's

3- the lessons of inspired courage that can be learnt from the many who survived torture and long-term incarceration under the chinese communist parties desecration of a peaceful and harmless nation

aside from all that, it is interesting. If parallels exist between a Tibetan warrior system and a Japanese warrior system, did these correlations arise independantly? Or was one the result of the other? Or did both evolve together through an exchange of ideas?

Just because people are discussing something 'you' can't find evidence for doesn't mean we need to be mocked for it. And if i wanted to 'sound impressive' i would have written something alot more fanciful and engaging than my few posts on this thread.

It makes me laugh, if it can't be googled it must be untrue or non-existent.

There is a world that exists without needing the approval of the web-community! Look outside your window and their it is!