Should we compete?

I have been reading alot about defending our honour not just in Bujinkan but Ninjutsu as a whole.Should we compete ?Are there some that compete?Personally I train for fun, health ,and self defense but don't like hear my art is crap.I know ther are some that say if it is so good why don't you compete? what are some thoughts on this?

Not trying to stir the pot just like to know

 

Personally, if you want to compete, compete. There are some that have, Sean Askew springs to mind. Me? Why? I have nothing to prove or gain by competing. Someone says ninjutsu/Bujinkan sucks, so what. Just words. My training has saved my bacon more times than I care to recall, as I'm sure it has many others. To me, that's all the justification I need. I'm not in it for sport or health, I go to a gym for the exercise. But, I know where you are coming form. I have been invited to a "smackdown" a few times, I think to see if my art could hold up against someone who does a "real" MA (BJJ). I decline. Like I said, I have no need to stroke my ego. No need to prove anything. Besides, I wouldn't want to give away our dirty tricks

 

Years ago when i first started training, a good friend of mine was giving a demonstration of Ninjutsu and at the end a local reporter asked "if the Ninja were so good why didn`t he enter competitions?", his response was "being Ninja we fight on our own terms, we would go to the competition venue the night before and steal all the prizes!"

Always remembered that!.

 

Sound thoughts I'm past my ego years and not wanting to compete myself . I do have 13 yr old that may get tired of beating up on dad.
Ninjutsu is very effective in any kind of shindig but why does it get a bad rap? Movies,Fakes,ignorance of the art? Does Mr.Askew want to raise up a defender of the faith? I know these are alot of questions and maybe considered taboo.Just like to know

 

The best answer for your question would be to ask sean himself.

I won't comment further as the issue has been discussed to death on Kutaki.

Raising standards can't be a bad thing, competing is good for some people bad for others, personal choice really.

I've never competed myself, but without going into details training in this art has save my life, my sanity(mostless) and my purpose in life, result really.

Mind you I wish at times i could 'lose' my sense of smell, sometimes having the window open in Norm's dojo is just not enough!

Gary

 

A Japanese shihan who is currently in California for a year, and with whom I've trained several times now, posted some comments elsewhere regarding such discussions:

That's pretty much how I see it as well.

 

I live in a very rough part of the east end of London. Just within my housing estate there have been numerous murders in the past year ot two. Attacks/mugging occur with even greater regularity. It's very likely that one day trouble will find me.... no need to go looking for it in competition. I care very little what others think.

 

Thanks for all the responses so far.I'm happy with Ninjutsu and my son likes it as well and we will continue in it.
(Quoting Hatsumi sensei) "I am not teaching fighting but how to kill. The object is different, not for the street fight, not for competitions. If somebody does not understand this, then he will die in real situations or he will be arrested. Even Takamatsu sensei had been arrested in China."


I guess our competion is on a higher scale survival

 

True

Dale true but nagato Sensei has also told his students that if anyone wanted to compete in K-1 he would train them.

 

I think the problem stems from our training and the actual competition rules.

You see, when a Kick Boxer challenges a Ninpo-ka to a match of kickboxing, it isn't combat....IT IS KICKBOXING!

When a Judo-ka challenges a Ninpo-ka to a randori match, it isn't combat....IT IS RANDORI!

When a NHB MMA fighter challenges a Ninpo-ka to a NHB match...guess what I'm going to say!

As stated MANY times before, Ninpo/Ninjutsu isn't about combat, but survival. A huge chunk of our techniques are based purely on evasion!

A Judo-ka trains for randori, a kick boxer trains for kick boxing, and a NHB MMA fighter trains for NHB MMA...we train for survival.

So when someone says "Come fight me in a (kickboxing/randori/NHB) match", they are asking us to step out of our "training sphere" and directly into theirs. No half-way, no middle ground, no compromise...they ask us to do something we don't normally train for, then mock us when we refuse.

It is like asking an English Professor to give a doctoral lecture on the specifics of Medical Bio-Pathology...wait, he doesn't want to?? But he has a college degree, doesn't he???

A more fair "assessment" for competition would be in a completely different "ring" than most martial artists are used to.

Create a 2-mile Marine Corps obstacle course complete with climbing logs, swinging ropes, and mud. Include men on the sidelines throwing medicine balls and low strung barbed wire. At the end, have Kendo-ists come out and repeatedly attack the competitors with shinai. The one who finishes first without getting hurt wins.

May you achieve
Satori

 

The moment you enter into competition there are rules, judges, medical personnel etc. There will be things you can't do and will have to train in a manner that does not include those things.

Once you do that the art is lost as our art is to use anything and everything as a means to winning.

 

Satori that breaks it down very well.thanks for all the thoughts

 

Pointing out the differences in style, the fact that the more dirty or lethal techniques there are in an art, the less suitable it is for competition or any conflict with rules, you can always offer a friendly spar. There's nothing official about sparring, it isn't taken so seriously that peope tend to hurt each other, and because it's done at less than fullspeed, it's easier to simulate aa technique without causing injury.

But you should compete only if you find the idea appealing, and of course you should know both the rules and the risks.

 

The ONLY competition that counts to the Taijutsu/Ninjutsu practitioner is the competition that exists when someone else decided to make you, your loved ones or your country prey to their predatory nature.

If you want to compete train in an art that is aimed at competition. One of the main hallmarks of Taijutsu/Ninjutsu is that ANYTHING GOES. The second you try to limit the techniques you use, or fight for selfish reasons/personal gain the y ou are no longer using Taijutsu/Nijutsu/Ninpo.

So technically it is impossible to compete with Ninjutsu.

 

Is sparring done in Ninjutsu training?

 

Depends on the Dojo.

My (ex)Dojo does it occasionally, as a means of building reflexes and getting adrenaline pumping. But Taijutsu techniques (traditional ones anyway) are almost never used because they are designed to destroy the other person not score points or have fun with.

Sparring is more akin to kickboxing or Silat than Ninjutsu when practisedf in a Ninjutsu Dojo.

 

Why should we worry about what other people think about us? Are we really that insecure about what we do that we have to prove something?

Imagine what would happen if you told Margret Thatcher that she was a weak willed woman. She would just laugh. If you told her she would never win a beauty contest, she would nod and agree. You could not control her by appealing to her fears and ego like that.

So, why should we let others control us like that?

Testing yourself may be a good thing. But getting in the ring just to prove something to someone else is letting your ego and others control you IMO.

 

ninjutsu isn't about competition and it isn't a sport.

however that doesn't mean a ninjutsu practitioner can't be a good competition fighter.

While ninjutsu in and of itself is primarily about the swift execution of another human being, a scenario which by it's very nature has left any artificial concept of 'rules' or 'acceptability' behind, the modern ninjutsu practioner is seldom a killer and rarely trains believing that one day they will have to end another persons life.

So we need challenges to improve our art and push ourselves physically, mentally and spiritually.

Ninjutsu is about freedom of movment, action and thought. Freedom means understanding the concept of constraint and coming to realise that there are always boundaries around us. The art of freedom is the art of living with such a high degree of harmony with these boundaries that they are eventually trancended.

With this in mind, the comments that ninjutsu won't work in the ring are misguided (IMHO). Ninjustu in its purest form would work in the ring, but instead of getting the medal, all you will get is arrested if you snap the opponents neck in the middle of round three!

Instead, a ninjutsu practioner who wants to compete needs to tak their understanding of ninjutsu and use it to really learn rules of a particular competition based art. Spend time developing the specific movements associated with the sport, join a club and keep your martial arts history to yourself. Become a novice and learn. Apply your ninjutsu mentally and physically to the task of learning what works and then, when you feel you are ready, get in the ring and take the opponent down.

Or get pasted to walls. Both would be good experience. The first outcome, however, will feed your ego and pride unless you are aware and controlled, while the second will make you more humble and toughen you up

 

NInjutsu would NOT be remotely effective in the ring.

The reason is that Ninjutsu would not be allowed to be used in the ring.

Taijutsu would be allowed however, a number of the unarmed techniques taught as part of Taijutsu training could be applied in the ring, but not in a Kihon manner. Only the loosest ring adapted henka could be applied, which would in fact become something so far away fromtaijutsu that you couldnt really claim you were demonstrainting Ninpo Taijutsu any more.