joint locks and obstinacy

[Knight_Errant]

I found once that it's possible to resist many joint locks simply by using the muscles in your arms, turning it into a kind of armwrestling competition (if you must know, I was being restrained by a policeman...). Comments, people?

[Casado]

I've noticed this too. Also a lot of locks have sophisticate technique. My guess is that some are practical and some are not. Akido and Ju Jitsu have both been criticised for using compliant partners in training. I've also noticed that there is criticism about using locks when it's raining (and your attacker is wet and slippery), if your attacker is bigger (and stronger) and if someone is wearing thick clothing (like a heavy leather jacket which obstructs the lock.

[Bon]

Depends on the lock, the person putting it on and who it's being put on.

I found once that it's possible to resist many joint locks

How many did he try on you? What was the size difference between you and him?

[Adam]

I don't believe that. If the locker is brutal and skilled enough, he WILL get a lock on you or in the worst case break your arm/wrist. Policemen are not allowed to apply all that much force to their locks as they don't want to have their pants sued of them for police brutality. I guess that if you're hugely muscular around the joints you can resist to a somewhat greater degree, but someone as strong as you will lock you if he has skill.

[Sonshu]

If you both stand there it will be an arm wrestling contest. However if you use strikes and most of all your footwork it makes the techniques very easy to use.

Against a larger person, belt them first then they become complaint 99% of the time and not by choice. Joint locks are very easy to do but more to the point if you are trying for one and its not gonna go then allow your technique to change to another one.

I am a big fan of joint locks I am strong enough to force them on but when I learnt the correct applications and total movement for them I found them easier to get without using my stength.

Just play about with your footwork and they become easier.


SOSNHU

[Bigfoot]

Follow the horse in the direction it wants to go.

A skilled lock practitioner will not try to force a lock or use strength, he will let the assailant 'lock himself'.

[Spike]

If you`re resisting it, then the lock isn`t yet on, if the lock is on and you resist you`ll end up huritn yourself. If someone`s much bigger than you you may well have to use some sort of distraction, be that a balance break or chinning him first

[Knight_Errant]

He was a quite big copper and I was a 17 year old with quite an amount of fitness training. He tried that wrist lock thing where they force your hand down against your forearm LIKE THAT and the pushing-your-arm-up-behind-your-back thing. All four coppers tried these things. I didn't get into striking etc. because I didn't want to actually assault a policeman. I'm not that much of a arsehole. When I was sparring once, I tried to apply the thing where you grab the upper arm and push the forearm backwards against it and the guy eluded me just by tensing his arm up.

[Swoop]

Watch some MMA competitions like UFC. You'll see some decent joint locks.

[pgm316]

Originally posted by Swoop
Watch some MMA competitions like UFC. You'll see some decent joint locks.

Its not just about good and bad locks, its about using the roght one for the situation and being able to move between a few locks if necessary, which is far easier said than done!

Far easier to resist it while its being put on, maybe not possible when its on. Which makes training difficult practicing a certain lock because they have massive awareness of what you will do!

All part of the grappling joys, at least you can practice them without the same risk of injury as striking.

[Jazman]

I would say nearly any lock would be resistable if you resisted at the right time. The key to them is to lock before the person realizes they must resist or are in the lock. Some locks also don't work well on certain people. For instance any lock which involves pushing the wrist forward toward the forearm has almost no effect on me. I would say the key is knowing which lock to apply and being able to smoothly transition between locks.

[Swoop]

When you're aplying any kind of joint lock or submission hold you need to be explosive. If you watch how MMA fighters do it you'll see how fast they are. They have exposive power and have the hold very quickly. If you end up in an arm wrestling match then you've done something wrong.

[pesilat]

In order to resist, your mind has to be focused on resisting. Try this. Have one of your training partners put a lock on you and you resist. Then having him distract you (i.e.: kick you in the shin or slap your face ... but tell him to make it something you're not expecting - maybe even have him do several locks on you without doing anything, then distract you when you're not expecting it). If done well, then your focus will move away from resisting. It may only be for a fraction of a secong ... but in that fraction of a second, he should be able to apply the lock without you being able to resist it.

Mike

[Clumsy Ninja]

I agree, all the locks Pesilat has taught me begin with a strike and / or a balance disruption. This distracts the lockee and allows you to apply the lock fully before they can react to it.

When I went through the police academy they thought the same thing; distract then apply the move.

My only problem is that I have 10 thumbs and 2 left feet, I move so slowly it appears I am moving in reverse and doubt right now if I could execute a lock on a cadaver

[Freeform]

People forget that the end point of a lock is a broken body part, resist if you want, I'll just break your arm.

Also the lock/break isn't the technique in and of itself, theres balance breaking and distracting to be considered. I'll kick you in the shins and you resist my lock, try it. Couple that with good balance breaking and THATS a technique!

Col