Right, another thing i am thinking of at the moment thanks to Norm is Shiki. Now aprt from meaning four seasons or being a restaurant in Seattle, what are peoples views on this, the Yugen or move into the ultra consciousness (i think thats how you spell it ) Four points to initiating and understanding this are Breathing, Body Structure, relaxation and Movement. All these together generate over time an understanding and feeling for Shiki. At some point (if your lucky) you should master the 6th element, you move with the “Shiki”. Shiki is consciousness and/or knowledge. You have entered the world of spirit, of elegance. This is the Yûgen no Sekai, the world of Yûgen. When you move with the Yûgen in you, nothing can reach you and Uke senses it. Therefore, Uke’s attacks are less and less effective. At some point he is not able to attack anymore. Physical fight has become impossible. The physical warrior in you has given way to the peaceful warrior. Anyone else got any thoughts on it??
Yep but they have a Russian flavour to them By applying Breathing, Body Structure (Form as I know it), Relaxation and Movement correctly you allow yourself to be in an effective position to meet with an attack, also you work on maintaining these four areas whilst eroding them in your opponent. Breathing is the link between the conscious and unconscious mind you have to be aware of how your breathing affects your form in a passive manner and also how by conscious control of your breathing you can maintain form (physical and mental) in “uncomfortable” situations this allows you to be relaxed which in turn lets you move in a fluid and flowing way. All of this allows you to react in a spontaneous flowing and creative manner away from pre-determined techniques. Now the above is my understanding of the four points Greg mentioned. How they enable you to understand Shiki....well I haven't got a clue ...as I'm unsure of the definition of Shiki.
Is that Brummie speak then?, "share us a bit of YOU knowledge" , but as you live in Walsall it`s probably Wally speak!
Greetings, Every factor that is influencing you Greg (like Norm) is pushing you back onto the path, or 'the way'. You have arrived at Shuki, enjoy your stay, try the food and before you leave, meet and get to know the locals so that the experience will be with you forever. Yours in martial arts, Kid
Well all I've got to say is: 'Have you lost your senses?' 'Yes, but I may have found some better ones. and remember as Tolkein said "Not all who wander are lost"
A more general question relating to the above line, but not an easy one to put into words; All descriptions such as the one quoted above are very good at convincing us that when we progress, we will be in position to control the outcome of events, 'tune-in' to higher modes of being and generally become less susceptible to the maligned intent of agressors and n'er-do-wells. Cool, all well and good, thats what I signed up for, but; What if my agressor is moving with Yugen in them aswell? What if my feeling of Yugen is not as strong as my aggressors? What is they are in control of MY kukan and I am walking forward into disaster? How would I know I was under the power of someone elses illusion until it was too late? Answers on a postcard to...
I think you are getting a bit too much into good ol "MA What if" I think Greg started the thread with the intent of discussing what peoples thoughts were on what Shiki is, and the path to it, and that worrying if the guy coming the other way has a bigger gun than you is counter productive. If it comes to the situation you've outlined then it's best if you "Don't think, Do!!" :Angel: :Angel: I'm not having a go it just seems to me that this thread is better spent discussing what Shiki is all about, lets face it that on its own is abstract enough!!!
hmm, not sure you got the point of my post, cos questions like the ones i posed ARE what shiki is all about at some level. The questions have led you to assume I am concerned with what the other person is capable of acheiving. And to a point you would be right. But the development of shiki should lead you to ask these questions of yourself! My point was really this; If we are told that there exists a state of being where we have an 'advanced' level of control of our physical being and the environment through which we exist, we run the danger of believing we are more that we are. If we focus soley upon our own capabilities then we close our minds to the possibilities that there may be others with similar abilities and that they could have greater control than us. They could see that we are begining to sense and experiment with shiki and they could 'create a space around us' which reinforces our developing sensitivity. But how would we know? It is my feeling that as one advances, one becomes more aware of the environment and our intimate relationship with it. This awareness grows over time. As such it is logical that it has 'been growing' in someone else for longer than it has been growing in us. But how would we know? This question is a genuine one and I raised it because I hoped that someone with greater experience would be able to shed some light on this little conundrum. My intent was to deepen the discussion of the tread topic, not divert it
Hmm well if you want experience and depth don't look at me I'll pass it on to someone more qualified.......
OK, I'm standing by with my dunce's hat as this is all well out of my league. If I'm understanding correctly, shiki is the perception of intention at the "birth of the thought". Two questions: 1. Is this then the same as what Soke described as kuji when he evaded SKH's punch to the back of his head? SKH said there was certainly no sakki, so soke had perceived the imperceivable. 2. Does Koto ryu not have a saying along the lines of "the eyes are everything", implying that you should always make your eyes appear blank so that no thoughts can be given to an adversary? Would that be to nullify an opponent's potential shiki, or just to give nothing away at a much shallower level? If it's the second, would it therefore fail to hamper a skilled opponent's shiki? Have I completely missed the point?
It's like reading a handful of fortune cookies followed by a Monty Python skit. You guys crack me up. Shiki =~ determination; intent; initiative I often pronounce/write it ishiki which has more 'intention' conotation. as far as beyond the void . .. I think it is, but it also runs through all other elemental manifestations
i had a lesson on this greg, 1 on 1 with a judan. it was a bit beyond me to be honest, but not so different than an aggressive 'stare out' sort of projecting huge amounts of confidence/agression/intent??? through your eyes into them, and basically making them pack it. i struggle with the concentration required, my mind usually wandering to furry triangles or something not as scary, lol
Funny that, i struggle with concentration all the time, i took the kids to Birmingham yesterday and there was tons of flesh showing, imagine trying to push 2 kids around while having to look in all directions!! Lucky you though Daz, one to one with a judan, when i get a one to one with Norm its usually about my wifes pyjama's!!
