Strategies for Improving the Nage-Waza Aspect of Randori?

[Fu Man]

As a newbie Judoka, the hardest aspect of Judo for me are the throwing techniques, or Nage-waza. To improve in this area, I am thinking of working on 5 hand picked throws that are suitable for my body type until I become very proficient at performing them. The other throws I will learn during of course of regular training at some point.

Is this strategy a good idea?

I do want to learn as much grappling techniques, Katame-waza, and striking techiques, Atemi-waza, as possible. However, when it comes to throws, I just cannot see myself being able to perform all 67 throws with confidence in Randori anytime soon. Hopefully, with years of practice and hard work, this will be possible, but not in the foreseeable future.

Ted

[jabcrosshook]

Originally Posted by Fu Man

As a newbie Judoka, the hardest aspect of Judo for me are the throwing techniques, or Nage-waza. To improve in this area, I am thinking of working on 5 hand picked throws that are suitable for my body type until I become very proficient at performing them. The other throws I will learn during of course of regular training at some point.

Is this strategy a good idea?

I'd say go for it. Most of the top competition Judoka specialize in a few throws and get them perfect.

Better to practice 1 throw 100 times than 100 throws once each

[Fu Man]

Originally Posted by Norm

Better to practice 1 throw 100 times than 100 throws once each

Yeah, I agree. This premise is the rationale behind the outlined approached I mentioned earlier.

Ted

[Timmy Boy]

If you're a newbie judoka I see no reason why you'd want to learn all 67 throws anytime soon anyway, so yeah, I'd recommend learning only a few for now and getting good with them. In fact, I'd leave it to your instructor to tell you what throws to use during the course of your regular training; don't try and jump ahead.

[judojedi]

when i started judo, i made the mistake of trying to keep up with some other judoka in the class who seemed to be making progress in leaps and bounds. i would learn as many throws as possible and try and use them in randori and even shiai....needless to say i got my arse kicked in the first few tournaments i was in.
as you have said, focus on a few core techniques that you like, then expand from there when you have more experience.

oh and those other judoka who where making so much progress, one quite after orange belt and the other got thrown on his head at the last tournie....by me.

[Fu Man]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone!

So far, I narrowed the list of throws down to the following 20:

Hooks
Yoko Gake (Side Hook)

Reversals
Kibisu Gaeshi (Heel Trip Reversal)
Tawara Gaeshi (Rice Bale Reversal)

Reaps
Kosoto Gari (Small Outer Reap)
Kouchi Gari (Small Inner Reap)
Morote Gari (Two Hand Reap)
Osoto Gari (Large Outer Reaping)
Ouchi Gari (Large Inner Reap)

Hips
Uki Goshi (Floating Hip)

Wheels
Hiza Guruma (Knee Wheel)
Kata Guruma (Shoulder Wheel)
O Guruma (Large Wheel)

Sweeps
Deashi Harai (Forward Foot Sweep)

Wrap Arounds
Osoto Maki Komi (Major Outer Wrap Around)

Throws
Ippon Seoi Nage (One Arm Shoulder Throw)
Suki Nage (Scoop Throw)
Tomoe Nage (Circle Throw)
Ura Nage (Rear Throw)

Drops
Yoko Otoshi (Side Drop)

Separations
Yoko Wakare (Side Separation)

Over the next several months (or years??? LOL), I am going to try to learn each of these throws during drill time and narrow the list down to fit what works best for me in randori at this time. With this strategy, I am hoping to become more effective of a Judoka in the short-term and long-term. As I begin to learn more and grow in Judo throughout the years, the main throws will more than likely change, but hopefully this will provide me with a good base.

Also, I plan to go over the list with my Sensei and see what he thinks about the aforementioned throws.

Thanks again,

Ted

[Captain_Coward]

IMHO i can see what your trying to do and it does make sense, there is no point in learning lots of throws that you are very unlikely to use, HOWEVER this is where a lot of problems are beginning to show in peoples judo as they progress, unless you have had a thorough training in a broad range of tecniques, your judo will never be as good as someone who has.
Now i said i did agree cause yes most people who are competing in the sport or who have been training for many years do tend to just stick to there most effective tecniques, however i am quite sure they know a lot more teniques than these and if the proper situation occurred could still use them very well.

Basically what i am saying is I think it would be a bad idea to limit your judo armoury too early, this purhaps missing out on some throws which you may find yourself to be very good at.
The only way to truly find what throws suit you is to try them all in full Randori or competition and then to see which ones have a high success rate, and the only way to do this is by trying them all, A LOT.

K

[Fu Man]

Thanks for the advice, Captain. It makes a lot of sense.

Ted

[Stabilo]

More than just learning those selected throws, you need to learn combinations. Pick throws that can be linked together for an effective combo (eg. seoi-nage, ko-uchi-gari and vice versa). Knowing 5 combos is better than knowing 10 throws individually. I know many throws but in randori and even more so in tournaments, I rely on only about 5 throws, with different variations of course. And always combos, gotta set them up to knock them down.

Learn what you can, but stick witht he ones that fit your body/fighting style. Like if you prefer close contact throws, distance ones like tai-otoshi may not suit you. Learning a lot of footsweeps is a good idea. And keep yourself open to new ideas and also different ways to apply the same throws.

Don't forget that any makikomi throw is illegal in judo competition now.

[Captain_Coward]

Excuse me, Maki-Komis are not illegal, certainly not in Britain, i threw a couple people with a O-soto Maki-Komi at the last grading. Is this a new international rule, if so when did it come into force and why.

K

[Aegis]

Wasn't aware of that either. Perhaps this is a confusion between a well-executed makikomi and a headfirst dive into the floor while holding on to your opponent?

[GB_Ronin]

Originally Posted by Fu Man

I am thinking of working on 5 hand picked throws that are suitable for my body type until I become very proficient at performing them.

Learning Judo is a long, long road which can/should last a lifetime. You walk down a road one step at a time. Some steps are taken quicker than others, some are slower, some seem like great leaps and some seem like little half steps, but all should be taken one by one. This being so I would suggest learning one technique at a time.

Take a technique like Uke Goshi; learn it well then build on it - move on to O Goshi, ...etc, learn the techniques that can be used as either a lead in to, or can follow on from one of these these e.g. O Goshi to O Uchi Gari, or Ko Soto Gari to O Goshi.

Also, I wouldn't learn any sutemi waza until a certain proficiency in ground work is obtained, but that's just a personal opinion (just like the rest of this post ).

Originally Posted by Fu Man

I just cannot see myself being able to perform all 67 throws with confidence in Randori anytime soon.

Who's really able to do Uki Otoshi or Sumi Otoshi in Randori with a peer?
After a certain number of years I still can't do most of the throws listed in the Gokyo in Randori, unless doing this with a lower grade or a junior. I can show how to do the technique, I can get other people to do them, but doing it myself in Randori is something else as we all have our aptitudes and should go with the techniques that suit these.

Sometimes, and with very hard work, you can develope a special favourite technique (tokui-waza) that is atypical for the physical possibilities that your body may suggest that it has.

But all cases it takes a lot of training followed by a lot more training, followed by....well you get the idea.

[Fu Man]

Thanks for the advice, everyone!

I am still training hard and learning a lot.

[Timmy Boy]

Originally Posted by judojedi

when i started judo, i made the mistake of trying to keep up with some other judoka in the class who seemed to be making progress in leaps and bounds. i would learn as many throws as possible and try and use them in randori and even shiai....needless to say i got my arse kicked in the first few tournaments i was in.
as you have said, focus on a few core techniques that you like, then expand from there when you have more experience.

oh and those other judoka who where making so much progress, one quite after orange belt and the other got thrown on his head at the last tournie....by me.

That's what I've found with judo. My old club in Chelmsford was much more straightforward, we spent the vast bulk of the lesson in randori and they didn't teach you very many moves at a time. At my new club, I pretty much only go because it is judo, as they teach you too much at once and you don't remember these things, let alone drill them until they're instinctive. My old instructor was on the 1984 Olympic team, so I'm guessing his approach is better in general, and not just for me