I am no longer a martial artist

Have any of you ever heard that term? I have before, but I can't understand how that could be. How could some one say, I'm no longer a martial artist, after making it a part of their lively rutine for years....to just give up on it. I think once a martial artist, always a martial artist. I believe it's cool to say I don't fight, or compete anymore, or I've stopped training, or I have found something else to do rather than martial arts. But to say I'm no longer a martial artist....I don't know. I thought that once you have learned and have it in your mind, as a part of you, that no one could take that a way from you. Just like saying, I don't know how to drive anymore, just because your license was suspended, or I don't know how to ride a bike anymore, just because your legs were cut off. You still know how to do it, just not able to. Just as saying I'm no longer a martial artist. You are, It's just that you don't do it anymore for some reason. But that doesn't change what you already know. Let's hear what you have to say.

 

I agree, I don't think I could forget anything I learned in Kendo after hours and hours of repeated practice. MENNNNNNN!!!!

 

I think the analogy's flawed.. What if you say 'I'm no longer a driver', or 'I'm no longer a bike rider'?

A martial artist is someone who studies combat. If you're not studying it, then you're not a martial artist... it doesn't mean that you don't know how to fight or can't from previous study.

 

Well put Bon... It's the same with any type of person... An ex cop, firefighter, etc. You still know the job, you just don't do it anymore.

 

Hmmmmmm........ Martial Arts is a little different being (or shoudl be) peformance based.

You may still "know" but you may not be able to "do". It's like the guy at work that STILL tells everyone he's a black belt in Shotokan - even though he hasn't trained in 1bout 20 years. NO - he WAS a black belt.

 

It might be fair to say

I am retired or an Ex martial artist.

As people who come to train with me and say things like - I was a dan grade but stopped for 4 years. The basics are there but some people need a lot of work to get back to a suitable level to build on.

Then again some people are back like a duck to water - it does vary a lot but I know when I was not able to train for a few months because of a operation I was 100% not as sharp or on the boil as I was when I stopped.

That to me is the difference

SONSHU

 

You do quickly loose that edge

Years ago I did a lot of heavy sparring, then I didn't train for several months and even then didn't train hard at all.

My sparring just wasn't at the same level, and I didn't want to go full contact, like my confidence had gone as well.

Grappling was something I didn't loose, I don't think you need to keep the same level of speed and timing to make it work....

You always keep a certain amount of knowledge, I think the problem is when your heart is no longer in it!

 

I have to respectfully disagree with you. As other threads have discussed, the rank of black belt does not mean one is a great fighter necessarily. A black belt in one style may be at a completely different level compared to another style. The rank of black belt indicates that a master found this student morally and mentally qualified to hold the trust of that master of that style. Once you earn that, you hold that forever, unless it is revoked for some reason.

Think about many of the senior masters who hold 8th and 9th degree black belts. Maybe they are no longer the great fighters they were in their youth, but the amount of knowledge and experience they have is valuable. I would not call them ex-black belts, nor would I support stripping dan grades from them as they get slower, older and less able to compete physically with young students.

Martial arts are not 100% performance based. Martials Arts include respect, discipline, honor, morals, and all that other stuff that some people call garbage. This is what makes a black belt NOT a street fighter. Steet fighting is performance based. If you can no longer hang with the big boys, you are gone. In martial arts, as you get older and slower, you are not cast off, you begin to teach and share your knowledge with the younger students.
Hopefully that guy at work who earned a black belt in shotokan karate demonstrates those changes that he learned in the dojo... the ethics and qualities that set him apart enough to earn him a black belt. just because he might remember the katas or be able to break a brick doesn't mean he isn't a black belt anymore.

I would hate to be in a school is that ONLY 100% Performance based. I would rather be in a school that encourages people of all ages and abilities to stick around and share. I know that one day I will not be as strong and fast as some of the other students. If my school planned to rip my belt off me and cast me out on that day, I think that would be a school throwing away lots of hard fought and hard earned knowledge that will have to be re-invented later. If you are in a school like that, what are you going to do when you get old and start losing?

 

It comes down to what you are measured on

Firstly I would never give a dan grade to someone who cant defend themselves and I have to say I am with YODA on this one.

8th and 9th dan stuff is an odd thing as when you become older you are in a more instructing zone rather than being expected to spar to the same level you did when you were 25, also 8th and 9th dan people I have met tend to have the higher grades comeing from there ability to teach.

It IS different - however if you have not trained in 5 years you are not a Black Belt - you were 5 years ago.

It can come down to dan grades becoming LONG SERVICE in many schools which I feel is a shame. Still some of the best fighters I know are in there 40's and can still mix it up.

They can still fight - if at this age and you can't or have not trained then should you be getting the belts. I feel that is not an easy one to answer but the difference I feel comes back to the style and school you belong to.

If you have not trained in 5 years you were a black belt and are no more. You simply go off the boil.

SONSHU

 

Thomas - I was talking about a 40yr old guy who hasn't done so much as run upstairs for the last 20yrs, is 60lbs overweight, smokes 30 a day and drinks like a fish.

He WAS a black belt.

You're only as good as your last training session

 

"You do quickly loose that edge

Years ago I did a lot of heavy sparring, then I didn't train for several months and even then didn't train hard at all.

My sparring just wasn't at the same level, and I didn't want to go full contact, like my confidence had gone as well.

Grappling was something I didn't loose, I don't think you need to keep the same level of speed and timing to make it work....

You always keep a certain amount of knowledge, I think the problem is when your heart is no longer in it!"

I completely understand. At one point I was so good so damn good in sparring, and then i don't know why, I took the summer off. That was 4 years ago........., I've never been the same since. Im trying to get my "edge" back. Im not giving out on martial arts, not by a long shot.

 

"You're only as good as your last training session" (Yoda)

I've been thinking about the original question and the responses it provoked... quite a good topic.

I liked Sonshu's bit about being retired or ex-, but prefered the bit about saying "I was dan grade 4 years ago but stopped training..." We see stuff like that at the dojang sometimes.

Yoda's quote (see above) was quite good too in the way I took it. The senior students are so valuable based on what they share. If the black belts come and work hard training the younger students and sharing their experience, I personally don't mind if they aren't the best fighters. We have some pretty old guys who come (and some with handicaps and such) who might not be able to take the young guys (depending on rules) but definately put out good material and a good example for others. I was lucky enough to attend two seminars in the recent past, each conducted by 9th dans in different styles... they were physicaly old, but spiritually/mentally tough as nails!

My original response as "once a black belt, always a black belt" fits with my philosophy because I know that I'll always be training and learning until I am physically incapable. I should have remembered that there are lots of people who work hard for a few years and wrap that black belt around their waist and then stop training. You are right... they are retired, or ex-black belts, or can say "I earned my black belt a long time ago but don't train anymore."

 

Glad you agree

I go to these master class things "funny name" in Luton - Beds.

There are Dan grades from different styles who take the session and we cover all and any subject. Its good atmosphere with many regulars and there are a lot of skilled people there who have techniques worth stealing!

Done once a month on the weekend.

If anyone is interested then let me know.


SONSHU

 

Sounds good!

Whats the criteria to get in?

I mean who can say who's a master or not.....

You must have seen a few ejits there!?

 

The name is the problem!

Criteria is basiclly an invite really - I'll message you the details - its not aimed at Masters or anything like that - its prefered for Dan grade or equiverlent but in short just looking for competent martial arts people who don't have an attitude and wanna have a good days training.

The guy has a purpose built Dojo in his back garden - its a bungalow with TV, shower room, toilet and matted dojo area - it is somthing I would love.

Great attitude and really good fun - we just explore all sorts of idea's from Single & Multiple Knife attackers to ground fighting to verbal control skills to strenght and stamina ideas to new drill ideas to everything really.

£20 for the day and that includes your drinks for the day.

Some very good people!!!!

SONSHU

 

How do you determine "dan grade or equivalent?"

It's interesting to see that you go to classes for masters, dan grades and equivalents... How do you determine who fits that 'rank'? The last time I tried to get an idea about ranking and evaluation in MMA, you told me:

"Exactly what SONSHU is mate!

You get it when you have earnt it and can do it second nature.
Also when you can explaine the elements of it and REALLY understand it.

No gradings - its on continual performance.

SONSHU"

I am writing this to make you look bad but I notice that you contribute a lot of responses to various topics ranging from MMAs to TMAs and everything in between. I am still curious how you handle ranking and evaluation in your style. Of course, from other things you've said, you must fall into the ex-black belt classification if you haven't trained in your original "dan grade style" in a certain amount of time.

My main point here is that many of us who hold dan grade in a style may move on, whether cross training or MMA and still consider ourselves "dan grade", even if it's a system without belts... How do other people evaluate this?

 

Think about this. The guy says he's no longer a martial artist.

one day he goe's for a walk, and two guys attack him, one of them have a knife. Without thinking, he quickly unhands the man with the knife and defeated them both like it was nothing to it.

Wow, he sure was moving like a martial artist so it looks........

simply what I am trying to say is that though he may not train in the martial arts, or compete in the martial arts and stuff anymore doesn't mean that he still cannot be one in his heart, and in his actions, especially if he ever has to defend himself. I know a lot of people who stoped training, got into a street fight, and decided to begin training once again afterward. All I'm saying is that the person may have stoped training competeing or whatever, but in his heart, he was still a martial artist, even if he didn't act like one until he really needed to. Though a knife may be dull, it can still injure.

 

Depends so much on the individual.

 

Ok knight errant, you get 5 stars for that one. You hit the nail on the head. That is so true

 

Re: How do you determine "dan grade or equivalent?"

I don't care about grades personally, thats a backwards glance. I've got knowledge, and I want more. Grade is irrelevant, Simple as that.

To be 'No Longer a Martial Artist', you need to have been one in the first place, so I suppose you have to look at what defines you.

I don't personally think it's about turning up twice a week for class, or wearing a uniform or even training your body religiously, but about what's in your heart.

It's not about quitting, it's about not quitting.